The Miscarriage Dads Podcast
E25: How Do I Talk To My Partner About The Miscarriage?
Welcome to episode 25!
How do you cope with a miscarriage when it feels like you're supposed to be the strong one, but inside, you're falling apart? Or when you look across at your partner, and she appears to be handling it better than you? This episode promises to share some insights into navigating such a difficult time.
We dive deep into the struggle of seeking emotional support as men, especially when it feels like our partners have more tools and community resources at their disposal. Chris and I discuss how mutual unspoken efforts to protect each other emotionally can lead to unintended isolation, and the crucial role of honest conversations in breaking this cycle.
Finally, we tackle the often-taboo topic of miscarriage head-on, emphasizing the importance of creating a safe space for these challenging conversations. Through consistent dialogue, whether writing down feelings or seeking advice from friends, we hope to foster a better understanding and support system within intimate relationships and the broader community. By sharing these practices, we aim to break the silence and societal taboo surrounding miscarriage, helping others to heal and support each other more effectively.
Thank you for tuning in to find solace, gain understanding, and embark on your healing journey with us!
Sincerely,
Kelly & Chris
Instagram: @themiscarriagedad
Email: themiscarriagedad@gmail.com
Make sure you subscribe!
Write us a review!
Welcome to episode 25!
How do you cope with a miscarriage when it feels like you're supposed to be the strong one, but inside, you're falling apart? Or when you look across at your partner, and she appears to be handling it better than you? This episode promises to share some insights into navigating such a difficult time.
We dive deep into the struggle of seeking emotional support as men, especially when it feels like our partners have more tools and community resources at their disposal. Chris and I discuss how mutual unspoken efforts to protect each other emotionally can lead to unintended isolation, and the crucial role of honest conversations in breaking this cycle.
Finally, we tackle the often-taboo topic of miscarriage head-on, emphasizing the importance of creating a safe space for these challenging conversations. Through consistent dialogue, whether writing down feelings or seeking advice from friends, we hope to foster a better understanding and support system within intimate relationships and the broader community. By sharing these practices, we aim to break the silence and societal taboo surrounding miscarriage, helping others to heal and support each other more effectively.
Thank you for tuning in to find solace, gain understanding, and embark on your healing journey with us!
Sincerely,
Kelly & Chris
Instagram: @themiscarriagedad
Email: themiscarriagedad@gmail.com
Make sure you subscribe!
Write us a review!
So if knowledge is power and we know that the conversation and the topic and the experience itself is very difficult and it's uncomfortable and all of the other superlatives In my mind, that then frees me up to freely just tackle it and just move right towards what it is Like I already know what it is right, towards what it is Like I already know what it is. So I can't be caught off guard by if she says something, and she shouldn't feel caught off guard by what I say when, when we talk about this, because it's already an uncomfortable conversation and we both know that right. So why not just talk about it if we already know that it's uncomfortable? This is the Miscarriage Dads Podcast, a podcast humanizing the experience of miscarriage by normalizing dads openly talking about its impact on us as men and fathers. Welcome to another episode of the Miscarriage Dads podcast. My name is Kelly and I am joined by my brother, chris. How you doing, brother?
Speaker 2:Doing good man Doing good. My allergies are catching up with me a little bit, so I'm a little nasally, but I'm good man, I'm good. My allergies are catching up with me a little bit, so I'm a little nasally, but I'm good man, I'm good.
Speaker 1:One of the trends that I'm seeing in conversations about guys who've experienced miscarriage is that there is some difficulty with figuring out how to express themselves to their female partners out of fear that they might be adding more to her plate. And also the other side of that is just looking across from them and seeing that, wow, she looks like she has a much better handle on this than I do. Maybe she has more resources, maybe she has more community, and so what's wrong with me? Or you know the myriad of things that comes with that. So I figured we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1:How do you, as a man, process what you're going through when it seems like your female partner is in a much better state emotional state than you are when it seems like right? So did that happen to you? Was that part of your experience? I can tell you that for me, the difficulty was in the initial ones, sort of trying to figuring out like you know, why was she not talking to me? We've spoken about this before where it felt like she wasn't talking to me, so it didn't seem like she had a better handle on it than I did. I also was not aware of my own feelings or what she was going through. So what did it look like on your end?
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I mean, for me, I feel like that's exactly what it was in terms of. It seemed like she was just handling it better than me, remember, um, I've been the one that has more, so shed a lot more tears, I guess, than she has about it and certain, you know, certain times, especially early on, just thinking about and those kinds of things, um, but I mean, what I realized after talking with her is it's not so much that she's like handling it better, she's just handling it differently. You know, um, I would say that she is a better processor than I am. Um, and so, because sometimes I just ignore things or don't look deeply into things, especially when it even comes to this and thinking about how I'm feeling, and I mean, you know, kelly and you people, for the people that are listening and have listened to a few episodes, I won't even consider things until we start talking about it here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So for Amber, there's a lot of other stuff that she's already thought about, that she's already worked through. For instance, she's been to counseling. I haven't been to counseling yet, so she's had someone to actually talk to about it. Now, granted, she didn't go to counseling yet, so she's had someone to actually talk to about it. Now, granted, she didn't go to counseling specifically for that, she went to counseling for something else. But when you go to counseling, I feel like especially when to her at the time that you guys experienced your miscarriage.
Speaker 2:Actually, no, I wouldn't even say at the time. She didn't start going to counseling until very recently We'd already started the show, oh. And then she had to go to counseling more out of crisis. This time she was pregnant with Randall and she knew like, hey, I don't want to go down this path again, let me just go ahead and set things up so I can go to counseling and, just, you know, work on things before it gets down, it gets to a bad point. It may never get to a bad point as far as she was concerned, like, but that's kind of the point, but certainly preventing it from getting to a bad point.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, exactly, you know. However, however, it's because she had counseling before that helped her through this period and then, after saying, hey, I know that something extremely emotional is getting ready to come down the pike. Let me go to counseling again. You know that never crossed my mind. You know what I mean. Never crossed my mind. I'd been to counseling before as well. However, it was very specifically for, um, like church stuff, okay, um, and so because of that, I never really got too deeply, I mean, and at the time that I went, of course, um, we had not had the miscarriage yet, um, however, it seems like the counseling that amber went through earlier on definitely helped her a lot more and she had tools a little bit early on to kind of help her deal with some of these things a little bit better. And again, that's more kudos to her right for having had the tools and being able to work through it.
Speaker 2:And, of course, there were conversations we had. There were still tears that she said I remember, especially after that first Mother's Day. It was hard for her, you know, but she was able to work through it because she is definitely way more in touch with those emotions and definitely takes more time to process and, like I said, is so emotionally mature that she's able to say, hey, I know something could be coming down the pike, let me go to counseling again. And being able to talk about those things again, I mean, you know, for me I look at that and say, man, like she's handling this really well. I'm just just over here in the back of my mind, falling apart just now, stumbling onto things, and it makes you feel like, oh, oh, man, am I failing at this thing again? You know, yeah, because you look at uh, we look at our spouses, of course, or or or significant others.
Speaker 2:You know, doesn't matter where you are in your relationship, um, and you know, as the woman who carries the child, that loses the child, you think that you're going to be the one that has to be strong for them Because, again, that was something that happened to them physically, didn't happen to us physically happened to them. But then to see them deal with it afterwards and to see the strength that they have seemingly going through this, you're like man, okay. So not only do I feel a little guilty, because you know this is something that happened to her, I don't want to take any kind of spotlight, but then you also feel guilty because it's like man, I'm still the one who feels like I need a little more emotional support than she does, but she's still the one who went through more of the stress than I did. You know, and it's not kind of like you said. You don't want to bring it up then because you don't want to add more stress to her, because you're stressed Like it almost feels unfair.
Speaker 2:I shouldn't be the one who's stressed. I shouldn't be the one who is feeling depressed about this or anxious about this because it just happened to me mentally emotional baggage, or coming to me and saying, hey, I need to talk about this. Then maybe I shouldn't, because I don't want to add to it and I don't know if I have the place to be able to say, hey, I'm feeling this way about what happened with our miscarriage or, for some people, what happened with our stillbirth. That guilt sits there and it does kind of, I feel like, prevent you from being able to say, hey, this is how I'm feeling about this day, even if she's never had signs of it, because, again, you just don't want to put like you said, you don't want to add on more emotional baggage if right, we're naming I think what you just said is that you're naming sort of the underlying dynamics that's going on, the, the interplay things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as the man I'm thinking she's the one who experienced this in in her body, so she obviously has reasons to you know, feel however it is that she's feeling and what have you.
Speaker 1:This is an emotional experience for me. It happened in her body, so I also, but I also need that emotional support because it's hurting me too. But I can't ask her for emotional support when she's hurting and I'm wondering if we ever take time as men to consider that perhaps why she presents herself as someone who has it all together is her way of protecting me as the man, right? In the same way that I think by not asking her for emotional support, I'm protecting her from extra weight. So I'm wondering if we're both trying to protect each other, but actually, in the way that we're trying to protect each other, we're isolating ourselves from each other, each other. You understand what I'm saying and I'm wondering if, if that's what's happening, then what would then be a better solution, a better approach where we can both support each other and give each other that support that we need, that we're wanting the other to give to us in that moment. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, hey, you know, maybe in those situations it's a good idea, maybe to even go to couples counseling, you know, to be able to say, hey, let's both go do this thing together so that we can be in this.
Speaker 1:But counseling may not be something that people number one can afford. It may not necessarily be something that people are open to. It may not necessarily be something that people are open to. You know what I mean. Like you may find a guy who is like I'm okay talking to my partner, to my female partner right, I'm okay talking to friends, I'm okay even talking to siblings, parents or whatever the case is, but I'm not going to go ahead and talk to a counselor. And maybe you have women who feel the same way too, have women who feel the same way too.
Speaker 1:Like my wife, I've been trying to get my wife to go to a therapist, to a counselor, just to develop that habit, and it's been a really long time. And the last time we spoke about it she's like that's just not who I am or what I do or something that I find value in. Not value, but something that I find comfortable, necessarily. So that may not always be. I don't want to take you off your track, but I'm just going to put that out there. Like that may not always be something that one or both parties can either afford or even like be inclined to.
Speaker 2:Most definitely, and I think in that case you have to be willing to trust your partner in that I should be able to bring this up without any fear of any kind of recourse. And you also have to trust that if this is a situation where you're definitely feeling like, yeah, this is definitely emotional baggage that I'm getting ready to put on her, you in that moment have to trust that she's willing to take it. Because you're in this relationship for a reason, you really do believe that this other person cares for you and wants to help you. Because you want to be able to do the same thing. You know you want to be able to take on her thing. Let's say she does have extra emotional baggage. You want to be able to help lift that up. You want to be able to help her carry that burden, and so you should also feel the same way like, wait a minute.
Speaker 2:I have to look at my spouse or my partner as someone who is also willing to carry this weight, who is also willing to help with even my emotional state. You know it's a trust thing. Why am I in this relationship with this person if I don't trust for them? Trust them to do something like this. We always talk about trust in terms of like, fidelity, like not cheating and all that kind of stuff. But do I trust my partner with, not just my emotions, but do I trust that they are willing to actually help me carry this load and carry this burden, because I'm willing to do the same thing?
Speaker 2:I think this might be also kind of difficult for us as men, because we look at ourselves as the ones that are stronger in terms of being able to carry these kinds of burdens and we look at it as this is our job. But we forget that when we're looking at our significant other, they're called partners for a reason, and when you have a partner, you're looking at someone who is also equal to you. You know, and we're not talking about like physical strength. You know, yes, of course, physically there is a difference between men and women and how much we can lift and those kinds of things. But when we're talking about our mentality, about being able to lift those emotional burdens that our other partner might be carrying, we have to realize that our significant others, our partners, are on equal footing with us and are also not only able but willing to do the same thing.
Speaker 2:So it is important for us to share, because you know, on the other end of this too, maybe your sharing can help your significant other also share some things with you, because maybe they, like you just said, maybe they're feeling the same way, maybe they're feeling like they don't want to place this emotional burden on you and it's like, no, this is all you also want, that you want to be able to lift that for that person, for your significant other. So I think you do just need to take you're going to have to take the plunge, just jump, jump in, you know, set, set your partner down and start talking and saying, hey, this is how I'm feeling about this and I actually kind of need some help. I need some help processing through this, I need some help carrying this burden and I am trusting you fully with myself. You know, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that makes total sense, dude. And what is true about this experience is that once you're in it, there is a vulnerability that comes with it. Right, you feel exposed, and in many regards, I mean the woman and, depending on how things happen afterwards, right, if she has to do a procedure or whatever the case is like, she is quite literally exposed. In many regards, me and you, as men, we're not literally exposed in that way because nothing is happening to us, like we've said before, but emotionally it does feel like there is a covering that has just been ripped off and we are just out there. So there's that, there's that fear of that comes with that vulnerability, or at least that discomfort that comes with that vulnerability.
Speaker 1:Grief, as we've spoken before, can be so isolating, yeah, right, so even with the person who you are directly involved with as a result of, and both of you are experiencing the same miscarriage event, you can begin to feel isolated from that person in your grief, right, and so you have in your mind, in your own concept, what this means to you. She has in her mind, your own concept, what this means to you. She has in her mind and her concept what it means to her and I can easily see that leading to. Well, I don't want to say anything because you know she's going through her thing or he's going through his thing, or I don't even know if he cares as much as I care. So so many things get exposed as a result of that Insecurities, there's the vulnerability piece, there's the fear, there's the fact that it seems like, developmentally, women are light years ahead of men in terms of expressing their emotions and all of that stuff happening in the background. So let's try to put ourselves in, let's try to situate ourselves in that spot of our experience.
Speaker 1:You said earlier that you shed more tears than Amber did. Did that create some kind of for you? Did that create some kind of thought in your mind that maybe she did not care as much or anything negative like that? Or did you just simply, or how did you simply see the fact that man, I am emoting more than than she, is here, more than than she?
Speaker 2:is here. Um, you know, I didn't see it in a negative way in terms of her Um, I didn't see it as a situation where, like, I cared more than she did, or something like that. The way I looked at it was like, oh, wow, she's handling this really well. You know, um, one time she came in I was um doing like doing morning devotion, and it just moved me to tears. And she came in and I was crying and she asked you know what's wrong? So I started telling her about it, you know.
Speaker 2:And again, these were feelings that were coming specifically because of the miscarriage, and she just said wow, I didn't know that it actually had affected you so much. You know, because early on she was the one that cried. I hadn't cried early, I didn't cry too much later and, like I said, because it was kind of coming out, I ended up crying more. However, and she didn't look at it. Let me say this I didn't look at it as a situation where she didn't care as much or I cared more, or something like that. I looked at it as a situation of I had been holding on to it for so long that it kind of made sense that I would have cried more. Now this is me looking in hindsight, of course.
Speaker 2:Sure, at the time I was just happy that when she said I didn't know that, you actually felt it like cared, that I didn't know, you felt it that much. I was just happy that I was able to share with her and that she was willing to again, like, I mean, I talked about it before, but she was willing to take that emotional burden on, you know, and I felt good knowing like, oh man, okay, like she isn't stressed about me talking about it or something like that. She was very willing to help and even try to help me feel better, and it kind of opened a conversation for us at that point. Um, but um, yeah, I never felt like I cared more or anything. I just felt like, wow, she is just, she's an amazing woman. She is, she is, she is handling this thing like a just just just like a champ, you know.
Speaker 1:But I think what you're what you're highlighting is worth mentioning, particularly on the other side of the spectrum, for our female partners. Yeah, because it could very well seem like here you are, here I am like the man, or as the man not like the man we are man.
Speaker 1:Um, here we are as men and you know, we in our minds, bro, like the world is falling apart, yeah, but outwardly I have to convey this sense of stability and security because I have to be a rock and a pillar for her, and she might very well interpret that as man. Does he care, you know like? Does you know what is wrong with him? Could be one of the questions or one of the directions that this whole thing goes toward. And then all of the negative assumptions and implications that can come out of that. Maybe he didn't care enough, you know, maybe he doesn't love me enough, or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1:And this is clearly just going down the negative rabbit hole. Like this is something that, as a woman, you're feeling like you're having. It is at the moment. If he's able to, to have that conversation and always keep that door open. You know what I mean. It's not like I'm going to open that door once and then I'm going to shut it because he didn't take advantage of it that one time and so I'm never going to open it again. It's a let's keep that matter of fact. Let's take that door off the hinges, let's blow out that whole wall and let's keep that matter of fact. Let's take that door off the hinges, let's blow out that whole wall and let's just keep this opening wide open so that you and I can go in and out as we please, as we're figuring out our pace and our and our feelings and our thoughts through this grief that we're both experiencing, both collectively and separately.
Speaker 2:Being able to say that early on, too, is very important. Just like you said, to keep it open, grief has stages. That means that as you go along, you're going to feel differently at different spots about this entire thing. And just knowing that there is a space with not just anyone, like literally with the person I'm going through this with, where I can share and not feel like I am adding to a burden or making this other person weigh down, just knowing that they want to help, is huge.
Speaker 2:And I really do believe that I don't like talking about things. You know and everyone will tell you like it makes me nervous. She's the like emotional check-in person. She'll be like all right, she'll sit down and be like okay, we haven't like talked about our relationship in a while, so where do you think we are? That kind of thing it makes me immensely. It always makes me super nervous to talk about, but it always ends up being great when we talk about it, you know. And so I'm the kind of person you have to sit me down and ask me directly, because if you tell me, if you say to me, pick a time so we can talk about this, I'm never going to do it, you know.
Speaker 2:So I would suggest for whoever's out there to say, hey, let's talk about this, and let's talk about it either right now or later, or whatever. Bring it up, but don't say, oh well, I'm just here if you need to talk. No, say hey, how are you feeling about this? I really want to talk with you about this. How did this miscarriage, this loss, how is it making you feel? How are you dealing with it right now? Really, ask those deep questions, and I say ask them instead of just opening the door and just kind of leaving it. Now, if you got to, like, make an actual open invitation, you know, and start that conversation so that they can know it's not just that it's an open door, but I'm asking you to come into this place. I'm asking you to come into this space and share, so that you can get everything off your chest that you need, so that we can grieve together, because that's really the point of all of this Is being able to grieve and grieve well, being able to do it together. You know what?
Speaker 1:this whole thing is revealing to me in real time, chris. So we've spoken about how the topic of miscarriage in and of itself is already a very difficult conversation to or topic to explore in any forum. Right, it's like you start talking about that at a party. You just suck the life out of the party, you know what I mean? You start talking about that in a funeral and everybody gets uncomfortable even more so you know what I'm saying. So there is no it's like there's no perfect context, unless you're intentionally creating a space to talk about it, like you and I have, and other platforms, every other context outside of that. It doesn't matter what's going on. That's just the ultimate party pooper.
Speaker 1:But what's becoming clear and apparent to me in the conversation that we're having so far is that that is also true between or among the two people who have experienced that miscarriage. Yeah, it's like there's almost this attitude that we're just going to pretend like that didn't happen and, uh, let's just not talk about it. You know what I mean? Or, if we are going to talk about it, let's just go surface level and not really deep dive into what this actually is and what it actually means, because it's so uncomfortable, bro yeah you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So to to see that dynamic play out, because that was certainly the case in my story with michelle early on, it was like I didn't know how to talk about it to her because of all the things that we've already mentioned and also because of the nature of the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, how do I even approach that with the person who had the miscarriage? So recognizing that the topic is not even it's not only uncomfortable to have with others who are outside of that intimate circle of you and the person who you're experiencing the miscarriage with, but that that same discomfort is true within that inner circle. But it doesn't have to be, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at. It doesn't have to be. So if knowledge is power and we know that the conversation and the topic and the experience itself is very difficult and it's uncomfortable and all of the other superlatives, if we know that already in my mind, that then frees me up to freely just tackle it and and just move right towards what it is. Like I already know what it is, so I can't be caught off guard by if she says something and she shouldn't feel caught off guard by what I say when we talk about this because it's already an uncomfortable conversation, and we both know that. So why not just talk about it if we already know that it's uncomfortable?
Speaker 2:first of all, this, this entire point. This is really deep, um, because being just just saying that, hey, wait a minute, like the whole miscarriage conversation that is outside, it really is, in a very much, in a much smaller version, what takes place in the home, man, that's. That is so true. All of the same things apply, all the same misgivings about talking about it.
Speaker 2:They all exist inside the home man, that's a huge point, that's a huge point and it makes me think, man, this conversation needs to start at home. It can't start out here. I think a part of the reason that we even even be able to do this is because we've talked to our spouses. More conversations need to be had, even on my part, most definitely. Yeah, you know, um, but you just see why it's so important? Because we're talking about being able to find this support somewhere out in the world. But if we're not able to find that support at home, how much is support in the world even really going to help? Yeah, dude, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Especially for you and I as men. Right, Especially for the dad side of this whole thing. That's not to say that our spouses or our partners must become our only support. They can't be excluded from being a support either. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, Like they can't be excluded and they shouldn't be exclusively the only support that we have, Right? But if I develop a practice of talking to my wife about the experience and about what it means and how it's impacting me and all of that and I I'm practicing it's almost like to use an exercise metaphor right, I am lifting that weight consistently. After a while, that weight is not going to be heavy. I'm not going to struggle under that weight anymore.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be strong enough to then take on more weight, right? So in the conversation aspect of it, once I'm, I feel, comfortable rehearsing, you know, certain aspects of the experience in so I'm inevitably going to stumble across deeper aspects that I'll now feel able and more comfortable to talk about, either with her, either with a therapist, you know, either with with people in my community who otherwise I would feel so shy and so uncomfortable having that conversation with. But if someone asks, like you know, why don't you try for a girl? Oh no, we actually tried for a girl, but we had a miscarriage. You know what I mean. Or why don't you try for any more children?
Speaker 1:Well, we actually were pregnant, but we had a stillbirth and just like and you're not saying it to be a jerk, right, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:You're saying it because you've reached a level of comfort within yourself about your experience and you know that you talking about it is not only representing how you feel, but it's also representing how your spouse feels, how your partner feels Wow, right, you feel, but it's also representing how your spouse feels, how your partner feels, right. So then you can now begin to educate people who are not aware of this because, thank God they've never had to experience this. But then now you can begin to educate people and I think that's one of the most powerful ways that we can really start chiseling at that layer of discomfort that surrounds this whole topic and conversation to begin with. But it starts like you said, it starts in the home right. It starts between you and that person who you've experienced that miscarriage with and working through your own discomfort and inviting that person to work through their own discomfort, and then getting to a place of of talking to each other about it in an open, transparent, healing way, with each other and for each other.
Speaker 2:And just to be clear, um, for everyone who's listening, because you know for the, for our, for our people who are listening that are single or might um be experiencing a miscarriage with um, with a girlfriend, not someone you've even gotten to the point of wanting to be a significant other with? This still applies when we talk about bringing to the home. We're not just talking about, like the married home, right?
Speaker 2:right, but you know how the saying is home is where your heart is, you know, um.
Speaker 2:So bringing this up with that other person that is with you, at whatever level your relationship is, is still something that you should do, that you should do.
Speaker 2:I don't care if you're just boyfriend and girlfriend, I don't care if you're just dating, and this is something that happened.
Speaker 2:Have that conversation with the person that it happened with, with the person that your heart is with, is really the point of what we're trying to say, so that you're able to be able to go out into the world and operate and get to the point where, like you were saying, kelly, when someone says, oh, are you going to try again, or how can we have kids yet, or what's going on with this, you can say, oh, no, we tried, but we had a miscarriage. And, like you said not saying it from a point of pain or from a point of yeah, gotcha, but just a point of no, this is what happened. Let me give some education about this, about this. You know, if this is something that can happen, if it's not taking place at home, as we say, with that significant other, with that other person, you know. So I mean it's you gotta get right at home before you can go out and do everything that you need to do out there.
Speaker 1:You know that's a huge point. What would you say to a guy who hears everything that we've said so far and he's like dudes? I totally agree with you, but I really just have a difficult time figuring out what I want to say in the moment. So I do have that supportive partner who has opened the door right. She's taken the door off the hinges and she's left it open-ended for me to say to her and talk about this whenever I want. I just don't even know where to begin, how to say stuff. That's just not my forte. What would you say to a guy like that?
Speaker 2:So first thing I would do is write it down. Write all of your feelings down. Don't and it doesn't matter, it's not supposed to be in like mla format. You know spelling all the words right, complete sentences, and you know is. Is this? Uh, actually? This is actually over here. This is an adverb you don't want to put it no just right just write your feelings down.
Speaker 2:If you need to write a letter to her, and this is not a letter that you're going to send, okay, this is not something that you're going to share, but you're addressing it as if you were going to send it or share it with her.
Speaker 1:Exactly Interesting.
Speaker 2:Okay, you know, let those feelings out, because that will give you some clarity about how you feel. That will give you a chance to explore those feelings. First write it all down, put it all out as a pretend letter to that other person and then after that, after you've taken some time to put those ideas and those things out there, that's what really prepares you to be able to even bring it up or even say something. Because when you allow yourself the freedom to just throw it all up again, yeah, you're saying it to your significant other, but again you're not really going to say it. So you can say anything, you don't have to worry about it being offensive or this or that. Just write it all down. Just write it down. Write it down Like free flow. Yes, let it flow, because that will give you the blueprint of where you're at and now you can read over it. You can look back at those things and say, okay, I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to share. Now I see how I'm feeling, I'm understanding a bit better. Now I can kind of tweak those things a little bit. After I understand how I feel, I can look back and say, okay, I don't have to say it like this, but I can say it like that. That's a big opening in terms of getting ready.
Speaker 2:For those of you who might have close friends, I would say, after you've done that part, talk to a friend and say, hey, I'm really wanting to share, and I mean like a good friend All right, because we got some crappy friends up here but like someone that you trust, someone that you believe is like a good friend. Let me like your best, best, best friend, all right, someone. You just say, hey, I really want to share with my significant other about this thing that's going on. This is how I'm feeling. What do you think I should do? Like, is this a good idea to share? More than likely, they're going to give you advice and they're going to encourage you to share. Okay, um, but some of us, we always need that little extra encouragement, that little extra boost, you know, and being able to have an outside voice real quickly that you trust, that you can just bounce some ideas off real quick, that you know is going to tell you the truth, you know, because they could be like hey, you know, man, I wouldn't say it like this, but maybe you could say it like that. Or they might be like hey, maybe you shouldn't bring it up at home in this room, because that's where you guys first found out. Maybe you should go outside on a walk or in a park. You know, this is why you have friends to be able to talk to, to encourage you and help you get to a point where you're able to do it.
Speaker 2:Good friends, not the crappy friends. Exactly, don't do the crappy friends. You know what I'm saying, but you know now you got two things. Now you've been able to let it all out already, so you already have an idea of your feelings and how you want to say it. And now, after you've bounced it off of a buddy, someone who's a good friend, that is encouraging you and giving you a couple more ideas about how to do it.
Speaker 2:That is going to boost your courage in terms of being able to bring this to your significant other. You know, and I think, that way you're actually able to share in a much more healthy way. You know, if this is something that you're worried about, if you're trying to figure out how it is that I can do this, because there, of course, there are some of us out there that are just really good sharers, you know. Good for them. For those of us that got to do a little bit of extra work, do the extra work because you love that other person and because you love yourself and you want to be able to move on and heal yourself.
Speaker 1:You know to the point that you said, first of writing stuff down, there is something to be said about.
Speaker 1:When you write something down on paper, right, it becomes concrete and the way your mind processes that it actually retains information more. And I like the fact that you say you write it as if you were going to send it to your significant other, to your spouse, your partner, but you actually don't, because the whole point is to channel your thoughts and your thinking as if that person were in front of you. But it's really just you, that computer screen or that pen and that paper, and you, just you, just going in man, you just whatever comes to mind, you're just putting that on paper. So I really, I really appreciate that that tangible thing which leads me to think that you know, we like to do physical activity as men. I think most men like to do physical activity. There's obviously others who who don't, and I'm not necessarily talking about just like sports and exercise and that kind of stuff. I think we just like to be active in some way shape or form.
Speaker 1:So if exercising is not your thing, if sports is not your thing, if video games, for instance, is your thing, like that's how you engage your mind, If walking, biking, whatever it is, if that's how you engage your mind, If walking, biking, whatever it is, if that's how you engage your mind, use that to then channel what it is you would want to say to the person. If you have to lock yourself in a room and be like, hey yo, babe, can you just go? Here's the card. Go get a mani and a pedi and a massage. Give me like an hour. Go get a mani and a pedi and a massage. Give me like an hour. And for the next hour you need to shout out loud while you're playing your FIFA game or while you're out on a walk or while you're, you know, boxing, riding a bike, doing whatever. Yeah, Just do what you got to do, but being intentional about getting it out of your from your brain, out your mouth, or from your brain to a computer screen through your fingers on a keypad.
Speaker 2:That is so true. It's funny because I am a gamer, right, yeah, and I know you don't know about this, it's fine. Fine, there are some people out there who are listening that will, um, elden ring just dropped a dlc. Um, you're speaking and I am. I am, don't worry, I'm gonna make it all english in a second.
Speaker 2:Okay, if you out there, if you know, you know, uh, but they just dropped this dlc and it's like extremely hard, so hard that people have complained about it, not because it's a bad game, but because they feel like it's just too hard. Okay, um, but there are those of us that play these types of games that are, we know that the game is hard, um, but there is just no feeling like overcoming and winning because, like, you get to a point where there's these bosses that you fight and I mean the bosses are just ridiculously hard for almost no reason, they feel unstoppable but then, when you finally win, after you've died like 30 000 times trying to fight this guy, these guys, the feeling of victory is just like, oh, it's exhilarating yes, yes, but it's because and this is what I'm just when you talking to yes, but it's because and this is what I'm just when you talking and help me realize it's because you realize you can do hard things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, you can overcome hard things. Yes, you can do it. If you just keep trying, if you have patience and if you learn to understand exactly what's happening with that hard thing, you can overcome it. And I think that that is something that's important for us in life is we can overcome these hard things that happen. Yes, life is not a video game, it's not. Life is not fantasy, it's not, it's real.
Speaker 2:However, being able to take those few moments, I think, like you were saying, whether it's working out or whatever, being able to do hard things brings that realization that I can do anything. As long as I put my mind to it, as long as I take my time in doing it and understanding the process, I can do this, and that applies to this as well. That applies to miscarriage, that applies to grief, that applies to being able to talk to your spouse or your significant other about what's going on with your feelings. You can do it. You can do this hard thing, you might have to approach it in a particular way for you to help you get there, but you can do it, and being able to see that in another area of life for those few moments, I think, is what gives you a little bit of energy to be able to push forward.
Speaker 1:So, as we try to wrap up and summarize what we've spoken about, I think a couple of key points are worth re-mentioning. It may seem like she is handling this in a much better way than you are, but have you gone the extra step to figure out if she is putting a facade to protect you in the same way that you're putting up a facade to protect her? Like that's point number one what is what is really happening on her side of the fence really happening on her side of the fence? Because it can just be a mirror to what's happening on your side of the fence. So do that extra work to figure out what's happening there.
Speaker 1:And number two, because you know now that there is a layer of discomfort and it is incredibly difficult to have this conversation anywhere and that is also true within your home with my significant other or with my partner, with my girlfriend, whether we live together or whether we are separated by whatever distance or circumstance. I'm not going to approach this with the expectation that this is not going to be a challenging conversation to have. I am fully prepared to have a challenging conversation and it can be a fruitful and healing conversation if we approach it that way, because you approach it that way. So those are the two main things on my side out of this whole conversation that I want to elevate as like the summary point of what we've said so far.
Speaker 2:I guess for me the other point would just be kind of how we just ended off a little bit, that you can do it, that there are tools in different ways, different ideas about how to be able to share, but just the understanding that you can, that you can do it. Don't block yourself off, don't make yourself feel like that, oh, this is going to be too much of a burden, those kinds of things. No, you can do it, you can share, and it is for your good to be able to push through and find that way to share. We'll see you next time you.