Holding your breath as you step onto the emotional tightrope of trying for a baby after a miscarriage, you're not alone in oscillating between hope and heartache. Our latest episode unfolds the poignant narrative of a father's perspective on the complex journey toward parenthood post-loss. We share the raw, sometimes unspoken truths of guarding your heart while nurturing the fragile sprout of hope with each subsequent pregnancy. From the nerve-wracking suspense of pregnancy tests to the healing power of embracing new life, we open up about the scars that shape our present joys and fears.
Thank you for tuning in to find solace, gain understanding, and embark on your healing journey with us!
Sincerely,
Kelly & Chris
Follow on IG @themiscarriagedad
Email themiscarriagedad@gmail.com
Make sure you subscribe!
Write us a review!
Holding your breath as you step onto the emotional tightrope of trying for a baby after a miscarriage, you're not alone in oscillating between hope and heartache. Our latest episode unfolds the poignant narrative of a father's perspective on the complex journey toward parenthood post-loss. We share the raw, sometimes unspoken truths of guarding your heart while nurturing the fragile sprout of hope with each subsequent pregnancy. From the nerve-wracking suspense of pregnancy tests to the healing power of embracing new life, we open up about the scars that shape our present joys and fears.
Thank you for tuning in to find solace, gain understanding, and embark on your healing journey with us!
Sincerely,
Kelly & Chris
Follow on IG @themiscarriagedad
Email themiscarriagedad@gmail.com
Make sure you subscribe!
Write us a review!
In a way, it's almost like saying you ate the fruit and now your eyes are open and now you can't see your reality outside of the frames of that experience that you've had. This is the Miss Carriage Dads podcast, a podcast humanizing the experience of Miss Carriage by normalizing dads, openly talking about its impact on us as men and fathers. Welcome to this new episode of the Miss Carriage Dads podcast. My name is Kelly and I'm your host.
Speaker 3:My name is Chris and I am your co-host.
Speaker 1:And we are so thankful that you've decided to tune into this podcast, in this series that Chris and I have been exploring, which is how to talk to your partner about trying again after Miss Carriage. But I think, chris, more broadly, just sort of what is life like after a Miss Carriage, right? So not just the how to talk to your partner after you've experienced that loss, but even to the point of when you and your partner decide to try again. What is that experience like in light of the loss that you recently experienced? So that's where we've been at, chris and I, and so we want to hear what your story is. You can email us at themiscarriagedadscom or you can find our Instagram page at themiscarriagedads on Instagram. So we're just going to dive right into it.
Speaker 1:Today, what we are going to talk about is now that we're on the other side of having the conversation. We've tried again. What is life like on that end, with that new pregnancy immediately after a loss to Miss Carriage? So where do you want to take it? How do you want to start unpacking this? Do you have a story that relates to that as part of your experience? Talk to me.
Speaker 3:So what I'll say is that that first time right at you know, the first Miss Carriage for me and I should say first it's my only Miss Carriage for me Of course traumatizing. We've been through that whole story. So the first time Amber comes to me and then says I'm late, there's a nervousness that comes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And of course, you know that that doesn't necessarily mean pregnancy, but it's a huge sign. Yeah, the next step is taking the pregnancy test. I'll tell you, man, when she came back and showed me that that pregnancy test was positive, neither one of us were excited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the first time, of course, when we had Chris, we were excited. The second time we were excited. This time we were scared. I remember if she just brought that thing, she said, babe, it's positive. Normally I shouldn't say normally, like this is all the time right, like I've got 10 kids, but the first time I'm jumping for joy. Second time I'm jumping for joy, excited, ready to call everybody, let people know. This time it was silence. I just looked at her and then I said, okay.
Speaker 1:And that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, when you, when you look back, when you look back at that time, obviously knowing how the story ends, how your story ends, but when you look back at that time in comparison to the first two pregnancies, is there a level of, I mean, how? I'll just ask you this how do you feel about looking back at that time now that there was no excitement in comparison to the first two times when you were jumping up and down for joy? So there's a feeling of fear, but what else was there?
Speaker 3:You know there's the hindsight view, and then there's the when you're going through. Yeah, yeah. Because, as I'm going through it, I'm trying to protect myself.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm trying to protect my heart. Yes, because I know I don't know how many more times of this I can take, knowing that there was so much love I'd already poured into the second child, all the emotions and things that I was going through, to have this happen again. I just knew there's a number one first of all, going into it fully, knowing that a miscarriage again is highly possible, yeah, and trying to, in my head, be a good dad, because you know, for me being a dad starts as soon as she says positive. The way I treated Chris and the way I treated our second child was I am praying and loving and rubbing on belly and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 3:This time I'm nervous. I don't know if I should, I don't know if I should try to make a connection. We all know, like we have that three month mark right when it's like, okay, if we make three months, then there's a better chance, but still not that full chance. So, so early on, I'm still battling with trying to connect at this moment because I'm scared. I'm scared.
Speaker 1:It's almost like you wanna pretend that it's not happening until you're forced to acknowledge that it is happening Exactly. At least that's how it was for me, like you know. Okay, so the same thing that you said positive test, no excitement Well, that came later on down the line for me as a result of my experiences. So I'm talking in particular after, let's say, like the third miscarriage, because even the second time after the first miscarriage, the second time that she told me she was pregnant, like yourself, I was excited. The third time, for the one that ended up being our first living child, juki, I think I was more guarded, and in the anatomy test, that's when I was just like, yep, I can fully be excited and cause I saw him moving and all of that stuff, so that was cool.
Speaker 1:The last two of our miscarriages is where I connect more with what you're saying, cause it was like you know what I'm just gonna pretend like this is not happening, cause I don't know how much more, like you said, how much more of this I can take, how much more love I can preemptively give that then may not materialize into anything and I just protect. Self-preservation was the goal, not just for me but also for my wife, Because in my head it was like maybe if I pretend like it's not happening, she might also pretend like it's not happening, which is bizarre because happening in her body. So so, so so. So so.
Speaker 3:So nothing to see here, folks. Nothing to see here, nothing to see here.
Speaker 1:You're not nauseous, it's you got food poisoning.
Speaker 3:Nothing to see. It's about it's gas, Don't worry.
Speaker 1:Fun. You say that I used to actually tell her that I'm like you don't feel anything, that's just gas. She's like gas that's making my stomach this big. I'm like that's gas.
Speaker 3:That's what happens. You gotta go regularly, take that fiber every day. That won't happen.
Speaker 1:I want to let you get back to what you were saying. You said there was the, there is the hindsight look, and then there is the foot on the ground look. So which one were you exploring? You were exploring the foot on the ground look.
Speaker 3:Yeah, foot on the ground.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:In hindsight, yeah, in hindsight, there's guilt.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's what I was going to ask.
Speaker 3:You know it's one of those guilt things where it's you know it's unfair to feel guilty because there's nothing that you could have done in the moment. There is no way that I would have known that the pregnancy would have been okay. There's no way that I would have known that Randall was going to be here and that I would have the chance to fully love on him and all those kinds of things. However, the guilt still remains because it feels like I didn't give him the love that I should have, that I didn't connect at the moment that I should have, and so now it's fine, right, randall's here, he loves me a lot and I, of course, love him a lot. So, seeing the result, I know that there's no love loss.
Speaker 3:I know that there's no like disconnect between us or something like that, but it doesn't change the fact that I wished that I just kept a positive outlook on things, and what's crazy is now me and Amber are not trying again. However, if something happened because accidents happen if she ended up getting pregnant again, I would still feel guarded. I know I would, because there is a trauma that has become a reality for me. Now I feel like it's just like a person. This might be a poor comparison. Go for it.
Speaker 1:We'll embellish it. Go for it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know, when someone goes to war and they come home and when fireworks go off, it has nothing to do necessarily with war it's actually for a good time but because they're so traumatized by hearing shells go off and all those kinds of things, those fireworks immediately set things off for them that make them nervous.
Speaker 1:Bro, I don't think that's a poor comparison whatsoever, because what you're talking about is PTSD. Yeah. I mean, that's what it is. It is the body's response to a major trauma, or the body's response to something that triggers the memory of a major trauma. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. So you're absolutely right, because even at least for me, when we were still in the process of trying to have kids, there was a part of it that was not enjoyable anymore. I knew what we're doing and but there was still, because of the repeat trauma, there was a part of it that even in the act I'm just like man. I hope this works. So I'm not even paying attention, I'm not even fully immersed in the moment of this intimate moment with me and my wife. I'm already thinking ahead, like I just hope we don't end up in the place where we've been so many times already. You know what I mean. So there is that part. And then also for Eden, my guy. For Eden, when she was pregnant with Eden, neither of us were excited, chris, it was very matter of fact. I don't know if I've shared this story on here, but I think it was the first. It was the first appointment that we're going to during Eden for when she was pregnant with Eden, just to get the pregnancy confirmed.
Speaker 1:That morning my wife woke up and she was so tense and I was tense also, but my disposition is to try to loosen up the situation because being tense, I can't do anything about whatever I can't do anything about, right? So I'm trying to like loosen up the environment, to lighten it up a little bit, all of that stuff, and she was just not having it. I wasn't reading the room well enough. So I'm trying here and I'm making little comments here and there, and I came off as more annoying than trying to lighten the mood. So we're on the drive to the hospital and she is just the closer the more we are on the trip to the hospital, the closer we get into the hospital, the more tense my wife is in the car. So then I'm trying to make small talk with her, just again to try to lighten the mood up. And then she was just like stop talking to me, stop talking to me. So I started to get in my feelings. But then I was like hell, it's not about you. So then I read the room. I was like all right, fine, we get to the hospital, we get checked in, we get called back, we're waiting for the doctor. Chris, we must have been waiting for maybe five, seven minutes. Ask Michelle how long she was waiting. She would tell you that she's been waiting as long as Moses has been waiting for the second coming. Okay. For her it was like two million years, bro, and I'm like we weren't waiting in there that long.
Speaker 1:So while we're waiting, I don't know what's going on in her mind and all of a sudden my wife has a full blown panic attack, hyper ventilating, cause. She was just like, oh my God, I know he's not going to be there. I know this is not a good pregnancy, I know what the doctor's going to tell us. And she is like hyper ventilating bro. So I went straight into, like you know, action mode, so whatever I could find nearby, and I'm fanning her. I'm like, hey, hold my hand. So I get in front of her and I'm like, look at me, hold my hand. I'm fanning her. I'm like breathe, breathe, it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay because she's like, what's taking the doctor so long was panic attack. Homie, in the middle of me supporting my wife, door opens, doctor walks in and she stands at the door. I look at her, she looks at my wife, my wife looks at her and then the doctor starts panicking, wondering why my wife is panicking. So I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like Okay.
Speaker 3:So I've been watching a lot of anime lately. So, like you know how they do the funny animations with the, you know, so I just imagined she's freaking out with the little things popping up on her head. You start freaking out the little things popping up on your head. The door opens, then comes the doctor and then she looks and then the things start popping up on her head Like yo, everything.
Speaker 1:So so she's like what's going on, what happened? And I'm just like she's having a panic attack. We're okay. She's like should we get the? Should we do the ultrasound now? And we're like, yes, all right, get on the table, pull this, pull that bro. It was just like pull, pull, pull, pull, pull, pull. Put the jelly, grabbed a little warm thing in my jig and it's just like and then we hear Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Speaker 1:Oh man, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And the doctor's like, yeah, there's the heartbeat. And then she moves around and then she's like measuring boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, yep, measuring at X amount of weeks and this and that. And oh, you just keep hearing the background Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. She's like the heart sounds strong. It's a good rhythm, right at the range of beats per minute. So, yeah, you guys are good. And then we're like wait, what? Yeah, are you serious? I was like, doc, make sure there's another one in there. She's like I've been doing this for 25 years, there's not another one in there.
Speaker 1:It's just one. You guys are good Uneventful pregnancy and because of my wife's panic attack she was so good, she was so gracious, she had us come every week for a period of time and then, after my wife felt like every week, you know, she could extend it a little bit more than it was like every other week up until a certain point before before the scheduled C-section. All that to say, Brody PTSD.
Speaker 1:Yeah, trauma that's exactly what you're talking about. That's the equivalent of the fireworks going off. Everyone else is having a good time around you, but then, because of what that noise triggers in your mind, it hits so close to home to something that was so scarring. You know what I mean being in that room, being in that office, being in that same space where we've been told on multiple occasions that that pregnancy was inviolable. It was traumatic for her, and it's not until now to be honestly, to be completely transparent with you. Now I'm asking myself the question have I been hiding my trauma Because I was with her this whole time too? In those spaces.
Speaker 1:So have I been pretending or have I been ignoring? Is it not the same effect on me? I don't know. Now, that gives me something to explore and something to think about.
Speaker 3:You know, I do think it would be a little bit different for us as men in that situation. However, there is something that you have been through that I have not, and it's something that you mentioned, and that's being in the room. I wasn't there, I was on FaceTime because it was COVID. So even for me, I feel like it's a little bit different, because there's the trauma and fear of not being there when something crazy goes down, and that helpless feeling, however yours is, you were there and there was nothing you could do to help, and there's that helpless feeling. And then, on top of all that, there's the loss of a child. That's trauma.
Speaker 1:And in your experience too, bro. I mean, if I was there and there was that helpless feeling and I was as close as I possibly could, homie, I can't imagine what your experience was like Not being and watching your wife break down like that over FaceTime. That's inconceivable to me, bro.
Speaker 3:I'll tell you, you go into it expecting things to be okay and then it doesn't. And at the moment I didn't feel distant when we're looking for the heart, because I'm like, okay, all right, cool man. As soon as the doctor says I'm not seeing anything, all of a sudden it's like I'm being pulled away. And I couldn't have been further away, man, because now I realize I can't hold her, I can't hold her hand.
Speaker 3:I can't. I can't just embrace her or hug her. The words that I'm saying now are filtered through a device. It's not. I'm not there, even just my presence in the space. I couldn't even be in the car when she came down and you know, because there's the feeling of at least I could be in the car, I couldn't do anything. Now, part of it was because we also had little Chris and little Chris couldn't even go period, so I had to stay home to take care of him. But even so, it's man. It's still hard now because they feel like there's no excuse. It's horrible. It's horrible because, as a man, you feel like your number one job is to protect your wife and to not be able to do that and be in a situation where, like there's nothing you can do. She's got to drive home, she's got to hour drive home.
Speaker 1:She's got to drive home For you. Was there any part of the pregnancy after the loss to Miss Carriage that you were able to enjoy in a similar way as little Chris, for instance? Or the second one before finding out that you guys were having a loss?
Speaker 3:For me it was gradual. The heartbeat, hearing the heartbeat, of course, was like hurdle number one. Getting to that three month mark was hurdle number two, but for me, I started feeling more confident when the baby started forming. I think the first time I really was like, wow, this is really going to happen was going in and seeing his head, Because there's that point where the head just looks like a human head, and that point is when I was able to fully let myself go and say, okay, this is really happening.
Speaker 3:Now I have to say that now in my brain I am still open to all possibilities because I know now that everything that could go wrong can go wrong. These are no longer just stories. These are no longer just isolated incidents that have nothing to do with me or my family. Everything that can go wrong could go wrong. However, there is still that I have not experienced it, so it's not that big in my mind kind of thing. I have never experienced a stillbirth. So even though I know it's a possibility and I'm still slightly expecting it, it's more like a 1% versus a 99%. You know what I mean. 1% of me knows it can happen. 99% of me is like this isn't going to happen, though Everything's going to be fine. Now I know for a lot of the people and people that are listening it's going to vary based on when you had that loss. I'm sure there could be some people that lost their child.
Speaker 3:After the child was born, Child comes out healthy, find whatever. Then something random happens, something random goes wrong and the child passes. But for me it was. When I saw that forehead, when I saw that head, I saw those little lips, I was like okay, I felt like I was able to let my guard down for the most part and 100% fully engaged. I mean, I was engaged before but, like I said, man, there's the talking to the belly. I would talk, but not as much because I was scared. But as time went on and like I said, especially when I saw that forehead, that big old head, yeah that's when I was in.
Speaker 3:What was it for you?
Speaker 1:Going to that anatomy scan, walking into that anatomy scan, it wasn't real for me yet, even though my wife's belly was already showing. It wasn't real for me yet because I hadn't gone that far yet. So this was my first experience after two losses, and I remember we were in there and the young lady who was doing the anatomy scan, she was incredible, bro, play by play instructions of what she was doing. She was like, uh, marv Albert, you know, just play by play commentary in the NBA, like she. She was that level. So I'm gonna check the femur, right femur, I'm gonna check left femur. I'm gonna check from right to left hip, I'm gonna check from, you know, elbow to to wrist, I'm gonna check, bro. She checked everything.
Speaker 1:And there were two moments in that Anatomy scan that stand out to me. The first one Juki was in there and he was kind of hiding his face and Then he, I guess he flipped himself on his back and so we're watching his profile right. He flipped himself on his back and then he starts to stretch His little head backwards and once I saw that movement of his head backwards, my guy, I lost it. I was like, oh my god, that's my little man. I saw, just like you. I saw that head and I saw that forehead. I was like that's all me, I'm like that's, that is all me, right there, I'm like that kid is gonna come out and that kid is gonna look like his daddy. So then, when she was checking his genitalia, my dude and she was like, alright, so now I'm gonna check his genitalia. And then she flips the John around and there it is on the screen. I was like you, damn right yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, you see that. You see, you see that. Look at that thing, the boy packing. Come on now. Yeah. No, I get. I just said, I just there, bro, and I just there, so.
Speaker 1:It seems like all of that bottled up emotion as, as a result of the first two losses, this was the first time that I gave myself permission to be excited that we were actually having a Healthy pregnancy. That has gone way further than the other two before. It right, and, like you, there was still. I don't think I was as aware of what else could go wrong, because my mind wasn't there yet. My mind was just in the holy smokes Never got here with the first two. I'm here with this one. I see the little man stretching his little head inside the belly. Everything's gonna be okay, like everything's gonna be fine, not a. There was not a doubt in my mind that anything else could potentially go wrong, even though I've had those first two experiences. He comes out and you know the rest is history for Eden, honestly bro, for Eden, not even the anatomy scan. Like the anatomy scan was cool. By then my eyes had been open and I had been aware of so many other you know possibilities. I was keenly aware that, even though we made it through the anatomy scan, that there was still so much that could go wrong.
Speaker 1:I had been listening to other podcasts shot out, to the still parents podcast Set out in the UK and I started listening to those guys. I started hearing stories of people who were told, you know, after the first trimester it should be smooth selling and that was the expectation set for them. And then it was not smooth selling and they ended up losing their kiddo, you know so. So I was aware of all of that stuff, which is the reason why it became real for me the moment I I held my son in my hands and that's when all of that emotion just started to come out and, bro, I cried homie, while they were patching up my wife, I was crying for like an hour straight because I couldn't believe that I was holding my little man in my hands and, coincidentally, he's gonna turn one. By the time this episode releases, eden would already be a year old.
Speaker 3:Oh, man so well.
Speaker 1:Happy birthday, Eden happy birthday to my little man, yo, yeah, he's turning one this Sunday. We're recording now on a Friday, is turning one this Sunday and this episode is gonna release the day after his first birthday. So happy birthday to my little guy, my little Edie, one years old. So that's when it became real for me. For jukie was the anatomy scan.
Speaker 1:Because of the first two experiences for Edie, I I needed to see my son, I needed to see him alive, bro, I needed to hold him, I needed to see that everything was okay, yeah. And once that happened oh man, forget about it. I was just, I was bawling, bro, I was holding him and I just couldn't stop myself from crying. I just could not stop myself from crying. And the reason why I cried is because of just the. It was like the culmination of this journey. You know, so much trauma, so much loss, so many emotions, so many different things, and he was, and he is the punctuation mark of of that journey, and it was just like we just released every. I just released everything, broski. I just released everything it makes sense, man.
Speaker 3:It makes sense because I feel like when you're guarding yourself with, especially with these kinds of emotions, it's almost like guarding isn't even fully the word. It's almost more like storing up, and Either you're gonna throw him away if it doesn't work or you're gonna unlock that door and let it all out when it's time, if it goes Right, you know. So you have all these emotions and all this love that is being stored up that you're not letting out. You're also storing up a lot of stress because during this time you still can't I Don't know if this is right or wrong as a man, but and the you still don't want to put on that that fear front right, like you still want to show your wife that you're confident. You still shared the. You know, yeah, I understand. You know this might not work well, you know you still share those things, but at the same time you still feel like it's your duty to be strong. So all those moments of weakness are also getting stored up in there. So I can just imagine holding Eden.
Speaker 1:Finally, man, that door is unlocked and all of that Pours out at that moment, all that matter was that we had our baby boy and he was alive and he was healthy and Finally, he was real. Yeah, for me he was real and I often think back on that moment and I'm just, I'm in awe of just what that moment means, I mean just who he is and what he means to me and our family. And you know, like you said at the top of our conversation, there is the hindsight perspective and there is the foot on the ground perspective, the foot of the ground, the foot on the ground perspective. There was very little excitement. All of that excitement came in that initial moment of hindsight after he was born. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like that's what was going on there. So I guess if we were to ask the question, can there be something in that pregnancy that follows, that immediately follows the laws? Can there be something to be celebrated? In the same way, if you've had a successful pregnancy first, Can there be something that's celebrated in that pregnancy after the loss? I guess the response to that would be it depends. I agree.
Speaker 3:I think it not to be morbid, but I think it depends on when you had the loss because, like I said, for me there are markers, for when I thought things were gonna be okay For you, for Juki, you had markers, and then the markers change with eating because you learned more and you realized more. And I think it's the same for all the people that go through it you learn more, you realize more. For some people, unfortunately, they experience it, so the marker changes and because of that, there might be people that are not excited until after the baby comes out fully. Even for the mother that's going through it it might not be excitement until after that baby comes out fully. I do think that there is hope that grows as you go along, but I think hope and excitement are two different things.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes yeah, you can be hopeful, but the way that you see that your counterpart who's having her first pregnancy, or you see your counterpart who is excited that he is becoming a father for the first time and you see how he's telling everyone of his friends, he's telling you, you know what I mean. He's all invested in going to buy, buy baby and setting up this and setting up that, and buying tactical gear, baby bag and all of that jazz, like all of that stuff. And you see him or you see her and man celebrate him, celebrate her, celebrate them. You, on the other hand, you're hopeful and it's absolutely okay if you're not jumping up and down, like they are. It is absolutely okay if you just tell nobody or if you tell a small group of people, if you tell one person like it's okay if you're not jumping at the first.
Speaker 1:You know Amazon Prime Day so you can get baby bottles and X, y and Z like it is absolutely okay because you've been through something that you would not wish they ever go through. Like you have that knowledge now. In a way, it's almost like saying not because you wanted to, not because you chose this. So the analogy falls short that I'm about to make there, but in a way you ate the fruit and now your eyes are open. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And now you can't see your reality outside of the frames of that experience that you've had, and that's the world now that you inhabit, that's the world now that you live in, that is your, that is now how the trajectory of your, and it doesn't mean that you can't ever get to a point of experiencing excitement and joy and all of that again.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean that whatsoever. In the process, though, as you are working toward, you know and considering trying again, and you're now at the point of you've tried again and you got that positive pregnancy. Expect for it, don't be surprised by it, expect that it's going to be different than the first time that you were pregnant and you had a living child. And it's still within I believe this, chris, it's still within our power to make the experience, whatever we want to make of it right. Yes, it still doesn't mean that it's not going to be different, because now you're going into this pregnancy with a new crucial bit of information, which is the awareness, which is not more than an awareness. It is the experience of having had a loss previously, and regardless of how long you waited or how immediately you jumped into trying again, whatever your reasons are that next pregnancy, immediately after loss is going to be different.
Speaker 3:And you know I think we've said it already, but I just want to reiterate that it's okay that it's different. I feel guilty that I felt different but at the same time, I fully recognize that it's okay that it felt different. There is absolutely no way and we've said it a million times already there's absolutely no way that you can avoid it not feeling different. So for all those guys and ladies that are going through this second pregnancy or you found out or whatever, or you're trying again it is okay for it to feel different, it is okay to not be excited, it is okay to feel scared and nervous for however long you feel during the pregnancy, I don't think anyone should apologize, even though I feel guilty. I will never apologize for me feeling that way.
Speaker 3:And I don't think anyone else should, because if the pregnancy is successful and you have that child, like we said, all of those pent up emotions and all of those emotions and feelings that you were holding back are gonna flood out and I guarantee that you were gonna look at that child that is here so much differently now, because you're gonna recognize that much more how special it is to have that child. So, while maybe on that front end you weren't as emotionally invested because you were protecting yourself. I don't know about you, kelly, but I can say for me and I mean well, I know you, so I know you are, but for the child that's here now, there's so much more love I have 100%.
Speaker 3:And so much more appreciation that I have for the child that's here. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, for after going through that miscarriage and then having a baby after that, oh my goodness, I do not take my baby for granted 100%. I do my best to love on my child. You know, do my best to love on my child. So again, for all those people out there, do not feel guilty. You are completely okay being in those feelings. Well, I shouldn't say don't feel guilty, you're gonna feel guilty, it's life. But just know that it's okay. It's okay.
Speaker 1:I think this is a good place for us to land the conversation. It's always good to have you, brother, to explore these topics with and to glean more from your experience and process through these things. I'm excited that next week, for our next week conversation, we're going to be joined by another voice and it's going to we're trying to bring the the females perspective into this discourse, into the series, into this conversation, to explore things from our female partners experience. So we've partnered with someone who runs an Instagram account and she is very willing and excited to join you and I in a conversation about this topic. So look forward to that next week and, until then, take care of yourself. Remember that you are not alone on this incredible journey of pain, loss, grief, but also hope and restoration and new life in more ways than one. Talk to you next time. Thank you, thank you, thank you.