The Miscarriage Dads Podcast
A podcast dedicated to humanizing the experience of miscarriage, and normalizing dads openly talking about its impact on us as men and fathers.
The Miscarriage Dads Podcast
E35: Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Month & An Uncertain Future
Welcome to episode 35!
One year ago, we began a conversation that was long overdue—a conversation that illuminated the often-overlooked journey of fathers experiencing miscarriage. This episode marks a meaningful milestone for The Miscarriage Dads Podcast as we reflect on the powerful stories and connections forged over the past year. We promise you'll gain a deeper understanding of the emotional and societal challenges surrounding pregnancy and infant loss, and how acknowledging these experiences can foster a sense of belonging among men who have felt isolated in their grief.
Imagine facing a loss often shrouded in silence and stigma, yet finding strength in shared stories and community. Our discussion contrasts the visibility of Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Month with more recognized causes, emphasizing the critical need for empathy and dialogue. Through personal anecdotes and societal observations, we challenge the silence that surrounds miscarriage, stillbirth, and infant loss. We aim to create a supportive and informed space that encourages healing and understanding, breaking down barriers that have kept these topics in the shadows for far too long.
We also tackle the complexities surrounding miscarriage in today's political landscape. From the emotional turmoil of spontaneous miscarriages to the nuances of healthcare access across state lines, we discuss the urgent need for comprehensive women's healthcare rights. By addressing misconceptions and encouraging open, empathetic dialogue, we hope to empower individuals navigating family planning amid uncertainties.
Join us as we look forward to another year of transformative conversations, shedding light on the profound impact of these experiences and supporting bereaved parents on their journey to healing and hope.
Sincerely,
Kelly & Chris
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Every year in the United States about 1 million pregnancies ended miscarriage. Let's just assume that every woman who was pregnant was with her male partner. That means every year in the US, 1 million men are impacted by loss to miscarriage. This is the Miscarriage Dads Podcast, a podcast humanizing the experience of miscarriage by normalizing dads, openly talking about its impact on us as men and fathers. Welcome to another episode of the Miscarriage Dads podcast. My name is Kelly and I'm your host.
Speaker 2:My name is Chris and I am your co-host.
Speaker 1:And we are number one. We are delighted even though we've not been on for the past week or so due to life-lifing and the circumstances of our home lives meaningful, impactful, transformative conversations where we've not only shared our own stories but we've invited other people like we've built an entire community of people who've come to share their stories and have entrusted their experiences into our hands and to our platform. And it's been an entire year of that, bro, Our podcast turned one on the 2nd of October. So just publicly, my guy, I just want to say thank you, bro, for hopping on this journey with me, man. So what does it mean to you, first and foremost, that we've been doing this for an entire calendar year, broski?
Speaker 2:I mean, first of all, it's wild, Absolutely wild has been a year Like when you first told me. To be honest, I still can't believe it, man. You know time moves so fast and throughout this whole time, with each conversation that we've had, bro, I felt like I've been able to grow, I've been able to grab onto this situation. I really feel like I've been able to not just express how things made me feel, but having the chance to go back and talk about it helped me learn some new things about myself and each conversation that we've had even when you just had your own conversations with people I feel like it's always been building to something. I have been learning things, different ways to look at things, different coping mechanisms.
Speaker 2:But I think the biggest thing, bro, throughout this entire situation, ever since we talked on the phone to start this thing is I'm not alone, I'm not alone. Phone to start this thing is I'm not alone. I'm not alone. Yeah, you know there are so many other men that are out there that have gone through this thing, Um, and also learned that not only am I not alone, but there are people that are wanting to have the conversation so that they feel like they're not alone and they want to be able to help. It's been awesome, man. It's been awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, I mean, I think one of the biggest takeaways for me over the past year is not just the number of people who have been willing to share their stories, but I feel like I've become. It's not that it gets easier to talk about, because it's not about easy or hard. I just feel like there's a, there's a growing confidence, there's more of a sophistication, there's more awareness about the different nuances. So it really just feels like an elevation of of and a deepening. It's like a simultaneous thing Like the. The way in which we talk about it has just become more elevated and the deeper that we dive into it just reveals all of that stuff. So it just feels. It just feels like I'm a much more, uh, competent person in terms of my own experience and being able to identify the experiences of other people and help them through their muddled season, as a result of having you alongside to have these conversations with, as well as the many people who've contributed to this project.
Speaker 1:We decided last year to release the first episode of this podcast during the month of October, precisely because October is recognized both nationally and internationally as Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Month. So we're going to talk about, for you and I the significance of having an entire month dedicated to these experiences that you and I have lived, and the month itself is not just restricted to the experience of miscarriage, but a plethora of devastating ways that we experience the loss of our children. What is the significance of this month for you in light of the past year that we've had, in light of your own experience and the fact that there is an entire month dedicated to highlighting and bringing awareness to this issue and these conversations that we've had?
Speaker 2:I feel like this is a word that we throw around a lot because of all the different causes that go on, and there's nothing wrong with the fact that this word has gotten so used I don't want to say played, but it's gotten used to hearing it and that word is awareness. We talk about cancer awareness, whether it's breast cancer awareness, prostate cancer awareness. We talk about drug abuse, you know, and awareness about that. We talk about mental health awareness.
Speaker 2:I think the idea behind awareness is when we're talking about being aware of something, being able to see something that we haven't necessarily paid attention to before and being able to hey, even if this has not happened to you or you are not impacted by it, at least being aware and looking out for it and looking out for it. And I think, when it comes to infant loss whether it is from that level of miscarriage to stillbirth all of that, because even with infant loss, we're even talking about outside of the womb afterwards it is a situation where this is something that needs to be seen. This is something that people do need to be made aware of and where people need to be able to have empathy for others that have gone through it. I think it's nice because it brings awareness, and it's something that I really just said. It brings awareness for those of us who have been through it to know that, okay, we're not alone. This is a big enough issue that we have had to actually have a month to sit back and look at, or a week to sit back and look at this specific issue.
Speaker 2:It helps in terms of, for those of us that have been through it again, being able to build a community off of that and know that you are not alone in this.
Speaker 2:It is strengthening that you are not alone in this. It is strengthening and because other people have been through it and are still alive, it helps you know that you can go through it as well, because this can take you to a really dark place, but knowing that there are people that have also been through it and have been able to push through is something that is strengthening. It's encouraging, but, like I said, too, for those people that haven't been through it, it's so important for them to take a minute to think about it, because and this is something that we've talked about a lot on the podcast it's just not something people think about, and because they don't think about it, they really don't have any kind of compassion for it. They don't really have any kind of empathy for people that have gone through or are going through it, because it doesn't register for them as actual loss. So I really think that the impact of this month is so huge. I'll say this before we did the podcast, bro, I had never heard of it, you know.
Speaker 1:I was just about to ask you that question. I was literally just about to ask you that question. Were you even aware that the month of October, with everything else that it commemorates or it's trying to bring awareness to? Because, if I'm not mistaking, I think October is also the month? I think it's also cancer awareness month, or or something like that Either breast cancer I'm not sure which kind of or I don, I think it's also cancer awareness month or something like that. Either breast cancer I'm not sure which kind of or I don't know if it's just cancer in general, but you know every day.
Speaker 2:I think it's breast cancer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's breast cancer specifically, right? Ok, so every day I'm sure if we overlap the whole bunch of calendars, every day is some awareness day, right, and every month is something awareness month. So there's a lot of different things, that there was even such a thing. So, on the one hand, it's amazing that there is this month, an entire month to bring awareness to the experiences of so many people who've experienced pregnancy and infant loss. And then, on the other hand, how much awareness is it really if you don't own, if you don't know about it until it happens to you, right? It hasn't reached that level of awareness in the way that cancer, for instance breast cancer, has reached, right? So you don't need to be someone who has had breast cancer to know that October is breast cancer awareness month, or if it's a week in October I'm not sure which one is the designated, if it's a month or a week but you don't need to know that because at some point in your life, especially if you're in the United States of America, you would have come across NFL games where all the guys are wearing pink cleats and you know different patches on their uniform and the end zone and this and that commercials and I mean there's just like a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:And I mean there's just like a lot of stuff and that's amazing because all of the money that's been raised for breast cancer research and for cancer research period, it's done incredible work. And there's some people who have benefited incredibly from just like groundbreaking technology, just like groundbreaking technology, right, groundbreaking research, groundbreaking resources to help them through that. And take that in comparison with something as devastating as pregnancy and infant loss. And you know it's and this is something that we've said early on in the podcast in the early days of the podcast is just not in the same platform. So on the one hand I'm encouraged, on the other hand I'm a little frustrated and on the third hand, because I'm an octopus, you know it's, it's under.
Speaker 2:Obviously, we all know that you're an octopus.
Speaker 1:Right, you know what I mean. It's understandable because, true to you and true to me, we didn't know about this beforehand, and it's not until afterwards, after our experiences, that we come across this thing. But here's another thing that I want to bring out in terms of why I think this month is important. We all have heard the statistic one out of every four pregnancy will end in miscarriage before the 20 weeks. So many people experience miscarriages. So many women experience miscarriages before they even know they're pregnant.
Speaker 1:Right, experience miscarriages before they even know they're pregnant. Right, that's just the body automatically, for whatever it's reason, saying nope, something is not right here, and then it terminates. And that can happen. In fact, it happens very often before the woman even discovers that she's pregnant. And then there are the miscarriages that have occurred, as in your case, my case, and why this podcast is even a thing? Because we had what we've spoken about before. The light turned on in our imagination as men. The womb of our imagination formed as a result of finding out that we are expecting fathers, and then the miscarriage happens. So one out of four pregnancies may end or will end in miscarriage. Now I try to do some looking into what is the average number of pregnant people in the United States in a given year, and I couldn't find any kind of data.
Speaker 1:The only data I found was that every year in the United States about 1 million pregnancies ended miscarriage which means that let's just assume, let's just assume that every person, every woman who was pregnant was with her male partner.
Speaker 1:That means every year in the US, one million men are impacted by loss to miscarriage.
Speaker 1:And that, my friend, is a significant number of men who are walking around not knowing, especially if they haven't come across this platform, especially if they haven't come across any other resource that is specifically for them, for us to highlight their experience, as we've highlighted our experience. That means there are about a million men each year in the United States walking around, torn to pieces inside, without knowing how to deal with their emotions, with their thoughts, with their guilt and shame and anger and all of that. And so here is this month that gives those people, these million men, at least some sense of hey. To reiterate what you said, you are not alone. This is a thing that happens, unfortunately, it happens to you. And let's, at least on a national and international level, let's tune our minds and our ears to be to identify where these stories are coming from, or to notice certain things, to invite people to share, to invite these one of these million men to open up and start getting the help that they need.
Speaker 2:This is the most known, yet unknown thing that we have in this country. I mean, talking about miscarriage and seeing those numbers, man, a million, 1 million a year. You know, everyone in the everyone knows that that can happen, everyone knows that it does happen and yet somehow we all don't know who has been through it, we don't know who is going through it and, like you said, talking about with men, it's I don't want to say doubled, like you can't double the number, right, but it's doubled in terms of how we just interact with each other, how we are. You know, you got this whole alpha male thing. You know the alpha male and the beta male, you know, and like you know, only betas share feelings and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:So you know, as men, we aren't necessarily talking about those feelings. We are taught to hold all of those things in and it's self-destructive whether we start destroying ourselves or we start taking out on other people, which is something that happens a lot, happens, a whole lot, especially when we're talking about abuse. A lot of this comes from things that we're holding on inside that we suddenly spew out on another person. So in saying all that, all I'm saying is, man, how important. It is especially for us as men, to be able to share these things, to be able to talk about this and to know I mean it even plays into our knowledge of this month being infant loss awareness month. And the numbers that you read? It was just miscarriages, right.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, yeah, Uh, I can actually look it up really quickly, but I'm I'm pretty sure. Let me see, let me just look up. Yeah, in the United States, roughly one million pregnancies end in miscarriage each year, and a miscarriage is defined as a loss before 20 weeks of gestation.
Speaker 2:Wow. So you got a million miscarriages a year and yet, even for me and you becoming part of that number, we're just now hearing about this month of awareness and, again, not just not knowing about the month, but not knowing about other people, because still somehow, in spite of the fact that everyone knows that it happens, that happens to a million people a year, we still don't talk about it a year. We still don't talk about it and there's still a very serious stigma that is around it, even for women. It is a really big stigma in terms of talking about miscarriage, and I think it comes to something that I said before and we talked about before, but just a lack of concern and a lack of care. When you put yourself out there and you don't get that care in return, of course you're not going to want to share about it, but my goodness, and that's just miscarriage.
Speaker 2:We're talking about Infant Awareness Month, so there are all sorts of different types of things that can happen inside of this month. There are so many people. It's funny because there are people that I've talked to now that have experienced stillbirth that I've been able to connect a bit deeper with, because, even though I didn't have a stillbirth, it was a miscarriage, it was still the loss of a child. I have even been able to connect a little bit better to people that have lost children after this part, after the infant part, because it's still grieving the loss of your child. So to know again that it happens to so many people and yet we still don't talk about it is wild.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude. So I was watching this video about. It's a PBS report that came out, I think this year or last year, but recently in the last like three years or so, and the reporter herself had experienced the miscarriage earlier in the year that that video came out and was produced and all of that, and one of the things that she mentioned in the video, or one of the things that the video mentioned, that she was talking to different experts is something that you said, and so I just want to highlight again. Here is one of the most common outcomes One in four. It sounds like a small number, but it really isn't. I mean, it's very common, right? So it's a lot. It's a lot that represents 25 percent, and 25 percent If you don't know what 25 percent is you've never been in a pickle where all you needed was just one more quarter to make a dollar.
Speaker 2:You know, I would even say this Think about the fact that a lot of us have multiple children and multiple pregnancies. You could have a one in four situation with one person.
Speaker 1:That is a fact, my friend. So here is one of the most likely outcomes that a couple who are starting a family or who wants to grow their family will experience. And because of the stigma, because of the stigma, because of the shame, because of the isolation that occurs when that event happens, for both the man and the woman, to learn more about why spontaneous miscarriages happen or how to craft care or services, how to allow the gifts of science to help us minimize as best as possible this devastation from taking place. It really handicaps any of those efforts because it is so secretive, it is so under-hosts of this podcast. In the first place, you know the fact that I had this experience. You had this experience and had one of us not publicly said something. We could have gone the rest of our lives, chris, never knowing that we shared a similar pain, and that's just baffling. You know now that we've grown so accustomed to talking to each other and to see like it is baffling to think that for as long as I've known you, there was actually a significant period of time when I didn't know that my brother was hurting in the same way as I was hurting. Yeah, and we could have leaned on each other. We could have relied on each other.
Speaker 1:So the significance of this month is also not just for everything that we've mentioned so far, but also because of that. If the natural, not the natural, if the national disposition, if the national awareness is finally had and the international awareness is finally reached where having this conversation with either a family member, a friend or even a total stranger doesn't seem or feel as cumbersome anymore, it can begin to lend to the development of treatments and technology and research to help us at least understand as best as possible what causes spontaneous miscarriages. Are there things that we can do proactively from the perspective of the man, from the perspective of the woman, to minimize the risks of a spontaneous pregnancy? What are things from a diet perspective that can perhaps be contributing to that? What are things in terms of lifestyle that could perhaps be contributing to fertility issues and what have? You know what I mean. Like the moment we get more comfortable talking about these experiences and and allowing sort of the layer and air of discomfort and all of the felt guilt and all of the felt shame and all of the stigma to just dissolve on its own. There could be great. We could be on the precipice of breakthrough, chris, and that's all it will ever be Just being on the precipice and never actually reaching that as a result of the many reasons the many legitimate reasons why people still feel so guarded about sharing that experience. And obviously on this podcast, we know all too well you know our own experience for why that is, and the reason for this podcast and this past year has been in an effort to strip away a lot of that stigma, to normalize a lot of that shame, to normalize a lot, empower us even more to openly talk about our experience as men and fathers. So this month is a very important month. It's a devastating one and let's also not gloss over the fact that this is a very difficult conversation to have. It's an incredibly difficult conversation to have. It's not your party starter, it's a party stopper, thank you.
Speaker 1:So you know I was having a conversation with a colleague. In the midst of the conversation she shared that she had experienced a loss before and I was not aware of that and just the way that that came up in the conversation. Now this is someone who previously I had spoken to about the podcast and it's actually someone who I'm trying to bring on the podcast. So she's already aware I've already identified myself to her as someone who has not just interest but is a presence in this space, and I guess that's what made her feel comfortable sharing about her loss with me. And we were just talking and then the conversation turned into, you know, her thinking about her future with her husband and should they want to try again for another child, and the way that she framed it. Is a conversation that I'm going to invite us to have and it's a delicate conversation, chris, and you'll see why in a little bit, but I think it's an important conversation for you and I to have framed within our experience as fathers. She said something to the effect of thinking about growing and expanding their family. She said now I have a lot out to be in the next four or possibly eight years. So we're not.
Speaker 1:This conversation, chris, is not about who you should vote for, who you should not vote for, or which candidate stands in favor of this policy or which candidate stands against this policy. This is not what this conversation is about. What this conversation that I'm inviting you into is about, which is the way that my colleague framed it, is moving towards this election having an extra layer of anxiety because of the implications of how policies may impact her decision-making about expanding her family. Because what happens in the event that she and her family experience another loss? How will she get the medical care that she needs? Will she be able to get that? And, depending on how things unfold, how then does that impact her and her husband's conversations about do we start or do we expand? Do we wait? Do we like, what do we do? So I don't know if you've, I don't know if you've considered that, if you, if you've thought about that.
Speaker 2:So I'm, I'm, I'm inviting you into sharing your thoughts with me with regards to that try to be careful with my words when it comes to this, because it can be so loaded and because the political climate in our country is one of such violence right now, not just verbal but physical. I think sometimes we you don't know about it until you go through it. It's one thing when it's theory, it's another thing when it happens.
Speaker 1:That's a fact, bro.
Speaker 2:We have a lot of conversations about women's care in this country, about what we should do, what we shouldn't do, what we should allow, what we shouldn't allow and a lot of the verbiage that surrounds that. People don't know what that verbiage means until it impacts them. You think one word means one thing, but it really includes a whole lot of other things, especially when we're talking about women's care, talking about miscarriages and understanding how the issue of miscarriage is actually directly tied up with the issue of abortion. Now, I'm not here to talk about whether abortion is right or is wrong, just talking about how miscarriage ties into it, because there is a certain level of care that a woman is going to need after a woman experiences a miscarriage.
Speaker 1:I mean, let's be more plain about it, right, let's be more plain about it. A DNC can be considered an abortion.
Speaker 2:It is, yeah it is.
Speaker 1:It's considered an abortion.
Speaker 1:It's considered an abortion, yeah, okay, so in the event that a miscarriage happens and it is for the benefit of the health benefit, I'm not even talking about preference here.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about a medical necessity to have a DNC. The anxiety that now many people are experiencing, both men and women. But right now we're going to focus on the primary, which is the woman, because she's the one who will have to undergo that right, like my wife went through that, a lot of women now are living with that level of anxiety. Wondering about man after November of 2024, january of 2025 and moving forward is going to become very complicated if it turns out that the powers that be the people who have a say in policies and influence and implementing and shaping our lives in the micro level and the macro level kind of bipartisan reawakening to the fact that we're not just talking about abstract and and and policies is just a big is can be a big old mess, like that's the level of anxiety that people even occurred to me. Chris, that man, this is really like there are serious implications, whichever way this thing goes.
Speaker 2:It's like you said, man, lives are at stake. And I know when we talk about abortion and those kinds of things and this is what I meant when I was talking about one definition from the word people think it only means one thing Abortion doesn't just mean I am terminating a pregnancy. It is literally like the evacuation of the pregnancy. It's more of a medical term versus an action, in a sense. So when we're talking about abortion, the sense. So when we're talking about abortion, even if you have had a miscarriage, like you said, if I then take steps to clear that out of a woman's body, that is called an abortion, even though the pregnancy is no longer viable and I'm going to use this language.
Speaker 1:Her body has already terminated the pregnancy. The pregnancy, and now it's the medical part that needs to remove that? Yes, 10,000%.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly and I'm going to use this language on purpose, because I want people to understand what I'm saying, even if the baby is already dead. And I'm saying this for people that are talking about the embryo being a child, even though the baby is already dead. When you're saying anti-abortion, you're also now saying that the baby that is already dead cannot be removed from the woman's body. For those of us who have been through seeing a woman have to pass the child there are some of us that we've been able to see our wives do it safely it is still terrifying because there's a, there's a, it's a lot. Women will die. Women will die Because, without that possibility, there are women that will literally bleed to death because they were not able to have that procedure.
Speaker 2:That needs to be understood. That's why there are so many women that are so open arms about this. That's why, like you say, kelly, your friend would even have that thought, because there is a possibility that if she has a miscarriage and is not able to get that dnc, she could die, and I don't mean like just a heart attack or something. A death is bad, no matter what we're talking about, but I'm talking about bleeding to death, non-stop bleeding from your own body, not being able to go even to the hospital. If that happens Now I know that you've been so hold on.
Speaker 1:So don't forget what you were going to say. Here's another thing that she brought out that also was mind-blowing to me. She said leaving it up to the states to determine what they want to do with that is also not the right way to approach this because, taking, for example, you live in Maryland, I live in Pennsylvania. So my wife and I, we decide, we have conversations, we decide that we are going to start a family. Because you know Pennsylvania as a Commonwealth. They're like, yeah, dude, we totally get it. This is the rights to every woman who needs this medical procedure to have it. So Pennsylvania is cool with it. And again for our international listeners, please bear with us because this is to drive home a point. So we make this conversation, we have this conversation, we make these decisions within the context of being in Pennsylvania, and so we are full throttle, we go for it.
Speaker 1:My wife is pregnant and she's fine, and dandy and yo. It's Thanksgiving and you and Amber invite us to have Thanksgiving at your house in Maryland, and so my wife and I, we get in our car and we are driving over to Maryland to hang out for Thanksgiving, so that you and I can watch Thanksgiving football together and Michelle and Amber can talk about whatever it is that they're going to talk about, but the problem is, in Maryland, having a medical emergency that would require an abortion is illegal because the state of Maryland has decided in our state, within our borders, we are not going to do that. And on our way, as we get to Maryland in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner, the most horrendous thing happens and my wife begins to have a miscarriage and there's bleeding. We wouldn't be able to go to a hospital in Maryland because the state of Maryland does not have the same legislation as the state of Pennsylvania. And all of the conversations that my wife and I had about starting a family, expanding our family, happened within the context of what was available to us in the state of Pennsylvania, to us in the state of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1:But now that we crossed state lines to go have a good time with our friend and this event happened while we were on the road, outside of our context of Pennsylvania now my wife's life is at risk. Now I'm going to find I need to find a way, and this is where it brings home to our experience as men. In that context. Now I am frantically trying to get her back to Pennsylvania, which extends the risk that she's in, because we're three hours away and, bro, you know DC traffic. Yes, we're going to get stuck in traffic so I'm not going to get home in any time. So this whole issue can balloon very quickly. But I just wanted to bring out that, that nuance in terms of the different states. Should things play out that way, if it's left up to the different states to make their own legislation about this, it doesn't solve the issue, it complicates it even more.
Speaker 2:Hey, man, and this is a part of the problem there are some states that are going to try to make it illegal for you to leave the state and cross the border to another state to get the life-saving care that's on the table. For some states, that's a real conversation that's happening. So, like you said, it's not a good answer because who knows? Who knows what could happen, man? Who knows what could happen? It's about people. At the end of the day, it's about people. Do we care about people? And what irks me about this entire situation is that a lot of the people that are pushing for these not narratives, but for these policies, know this. They know this and they do not care. All they want to do and they purposely pull these things out or say that this person is lying or that person is lying, just so they can hold some power. It is disgusting because, because at the cost of human bodies, people are willing To allow people to die Just so that they can sit in a seat and say what they want that's what it is at the end of the day and they're willing to lie and cheat and steal and do whatever needs to be done Again, even at the expense of human bodies At this point, we're specifically talking about women's bodies just so they can have a little bit of power. It's wrong, man. It's wrong, and this is something, like I said, unless you've been through it and you're just listening and hearing different things. This is why there are some people that are like, oh, wait a minute, because these are things that have happened already during this time. Now where there are women who have already been to death because they have not been able to get the life-saving care that they need, and, like you said, as the man now we're sitting here like well, wait a minute, she didn't have an abortion, she just had a miscarriage. Now, when it's too late. Now you've learned what the law is, now you've learned what abortion actually means and what it means for your significant other, and now, as a man, you are not only powerless, but now you are literally questioning your entire mentality surrounding everything. You want to talk about being broken, knowing that, especially if you voted for it, that now you also had a hand in your significant other losing their life because of something like this man. And this is why this is a conversation, and this is why it's something that we are trying to bring awareness to so that we make the right decisions. Like we said, ain't nobody telling you who to vote for, ain't nobody telling you who not to vote for or whatever, but just know what's going on.
Speaker 2:We always talk about doing our research. For real, do your research. I don't mean going to some random blog page and whether you're super right or super left about someone who is writing some conspiracy about whatever. Some conspiracy about whatever. No, read some news articles. Go talk to doctors you have a personal doctor. Talk to them about what these things mean. Ask them what it means. Do some research and find out about these issues before you go to the ballot so you can know exactly what's going on here. Because, again, we're talking about people's lives and you do have to realize that there are people in this world that do not care about you and do not care about your life or the life of your significant other. You got to know that.
Speaker 1:And I would add to that, chris don't just talk to the doctor and do research. Talk to a person who has been through that. Yes, talk to someone, not just some random person. Talk to someone close to you who has been through that. Here's the reality, chris. Whether you are the most avid Trump supporter or you are the most avid Kamala Harris supporter, I don't care what your political party, I don't care what your political affiliation is, I don't care what the history of your family is and how they've always voted Bro. None of that means absolutely anything. When you are in a situation where someone who you absolutely love and care for and admire is on the floor in a bathroom in the most excruciating pain because their body is passing and rejecting a dead baby, or you find yourself in a hospital where your baby's heartbeat was fine and dandy that morning that you woke up, and before your car could even warm up enough for you to drive off to that appointment, your baby's heart stops beating. I don't care what your and this is the reason why I have such high reverence for this conversation that we are having across the board, not this specific one, but talking about this event and talking about the devastation of these, of this event.
Speaker 1:This is something that happens Before. Amber had a miscarriage. No one asked her if she was a Republican or a Democrat, if she was black or white. If she was, nobody asked her. Nobody asked my wife, nobody asked you or I what our demographics were to determine. Through the matrix, you know whether or not we were the target audience.
Speaker 1:This is something that happens to both Republicans and Democrats. This is something that happens to both people who you like and people who you dislike, and so it cuts across all of the dividing lines, all of the walls that we put up to present ourselves as enemies to one another. It cuts across all of that and it brings each and every single one of us to the same dark place in our mind, to the same dark place in our emotions. It brings us all down to our knees. That is the only perspective that matters in this conversation. I don't care about policies, bro. I don't care about politics, I don't care about candidates, and I'm just reiterating what you just said. It's because we've gone away from looking at this as a people issue, it's because we've gone away from that most basic perspective that we've started saying all sorts of crazy stupidities out of our mouths, stupidities out of our mouths, and then we put those crazy, stupid things on paper and we send it through our legal process so that they can become policies that influence the lives of people like me and you, who are devastated and decimated by this thing, by this event, devastated and decimated by this thing, by this event.
Speaker 1:So, in the greater context of pregnancy and infant loss awareness month, at the heart of that, that wouldn't even be a thing if we weren't essentially and only fundamentally talking about people and how people are impacted by this event. And so this has November and moving forward has deep implications, not just for women. It has deep implications for us men, because think about all of the layers of complexities that we've drawn attention to over this past year, at least as it pertains to our experience, and all of the nuances of that. Now, imagine knowing that politicians and policies and politics influence and complicate even more a grief that's already complicated as heck. And no wonder, bro, people are walking around here angry as hell man, like destroying each other and ourselves. And again, I'm just reiterating what you just said, bro, but in my own words, like this is what this is all about. This is what this is all about. So this is not a nice and soft landing pad for us to land this plane, but I did want to have that conversation with you because we're so close to November, because we are in this month that is bringing awareness to the experience of pregnancy and infant loss, and we can't have that conversation in a vacuum, ignoring what's at stake.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what, chris? Hold on, man, I'm going to say this last thing and then I'll give you the final word. I'm going to say this last thing. I'm going to be very clear, because I know there are people who will listen to this segment and they will say all sorts of things. I welcome people saying all sorts of things, and especially the people who may, who will say things out of a place of you've never had this experience and you have no idea, no concept, no personal connection to what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:So, while it seems like the things that you might write or say out of your mouth are the intelligent things to say, I'm actually not even going to be upset at it because you have no concept of what you're talking about. So we're not even having the same conversation. So I'm not even going to give those people, bro, the time of day, and even for people who have gone through this and still choose to say some really messed up things out of your mind, out of your mouth. Rather, man, my heart goes out to you, and I sincerely mean it when I say I hope you work through your grief and your experience and get to a place where you feel settled within yourself. And to all of the trolls who are out there, bro, the political trolls who are out there, who will be like oh, look at these X or look at these Y. They have Listen, man, bring it on, because, again, you're speaking from a place of ignorance, not because you're ignorant, but because, to use the matrix analogy, you have still taken the blue pill and you've never been forced to take the red pill.
Speaker 1:Lastly, this is what I'm going to say Anyone who chooses to never listen to an episode of the Miscarriage Dads podcast again, because you feel as though Chris and I are over-portraying a political ideology or affiliation that goes against yours.
Speaker 1:Number one, we have never identified you as an enemy and we're actually not your enemy If you consider us an enemy man, thank you for being on the ride with us for this long. And if this is the episode that makes you hop off, I hope that you're still able to find everything that you need in the last year worth of catalog that we have to have helped you along your process and to help you continue along your process, excluding this segment of this conversation and I say all these things, chris, sincerely. Broski, this is not even sarcasm, this is me being sincere to our audience, because I can only imagine that these type of things we live in this era of internet trolls and what have you, bro. So let me just address it right here, right now, and then not have to address it after that. So go ahead, I'll give you the last word.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, bro, that's the last word. That was the last word. 100%, bro. Send the message. That was the last word.
Speaker 1:So we really appreciate you for not just this past year, but because you continue to, for not just this past year, but because you continue to tune in to this podcast and to trust us in leading you, as fathers to the children who we've never met. And so if you're someone who has come across this podcast during this month and you are new to this whole experience, you can always reach out to Chris and I on Instagram the Miscarriage Dad. On Instagram. You can send us an email themiscarriagedad at gmailcom.
Speaker 1:We are open to talking about anything and everything that is relevant to you and to help you along your process of grief and recovery, as you gain resilience, moving forward and, again, incredibly thankful for the year that's passed, looking forward to yet another year of conversations and diving deeper into some of these issues, bringing you more conversation and content tailored to the experience that is meaningful to you, to all of the babies whom we've lost throughout the whole year, to every single bereaved parent, to everyone who has been carrying the weight of this experience for such a long time and has yet to open their mouths and tell their own stories.
Speaker 1:You're not alone. We see you, we know you're there, we can feel you and we are just wanting to encourage you To open up and share your story, because the more people Talk about this, the more the stigma, the guilt, the shame, the discomfort Melt away, until we finally get to that sweet gem in the center, which is a collective, national, international disposition towards acknowledging such devastation as a result of loss to miscarriage and every other form of pregnancy and infant loss. So thank you again for tuning into this podcast and we will see you and talk to you next week.
