E13: Suffering In Silence ft. Ross Knight (part 1)

The part of baby loss we don’t hear enough is what happens to dads when everyone assumes we’re “fine.” This week I speak with my friend, Ross Knight, for a raw conversation about infertility, IVF, miscarriage, and the quiet ways grief shows up in men who are trying to hold everything together.

Ross shares the road from early marriage hopes to the shock of a male factor infertility diagnosis and the stigma that can come with it. We talk about the pressure of fertility treatment, the real cost of IVF, and the painful imbalance many couples face when the wife’s body carries the medical burden even when the fertility issue isn’t hers. Ross also reflects on being a pastor during all of this, managing public responsibilities while suffering in silence at home.

Then hope arrives fast: a positive pregnancy test, early ultrasounds, telling family, and finally letting themselves picture a future. Under COVID restrictions, appointments become harder and lonelier, and one day a string of texts signals that something is wrong. What follows is the moment no parent is prepared for: walking into a room and learning there is no heartbeat. We unpack the aftermath, the DNC decision, the clash of grieving styles in marriage, and the line that changes Ross’s internal world weeks later: “How are you doing with all this?”

If you’ve faced miscarriage, pregnancy loss, infertility, or IVF, this story offers language for what you may not have named yet and a reminder to check on both parents. 

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Theme Music: "Love Letter” was created using AI as a creative tool, with lyrics and direction shaped by the personal experiences and emotional intent of the host.

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"Those Were The Days" & "Young Love" by Nu Alkemi$t

Transcript

Carrying Her Pain In Silence

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What I'm doing in this situation, I'm I'm only thinking about her throughout this whole thing. I'm only thinking about how I can help her, what can I do to make her feel better? How can I all these things? But I do remember that my wife's older sister came to be with us, and we're out to eat for breakfast, and my wife has to get up and use the restroom. And my wife's sister named Satara, she asked me, she said, Now, how are you doing with all this? And I remember having this epiphany that she was the very first person who had asked me that question.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Hi, I'm Kelly Shafi. And welcome to Dad Always, the podcast exploring what it means to be a dad even after baby loss.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Hey, my name is Ross Knight, and father of two adopted young kids, one only just over a month old and the another going on four years old.

Dreams Of Fatherhood And Waiting

SPEAKER_00 1:31

So we've known each other for a while, but I think this is the first time that we're having a conversation about an experience that is common between the both of us. And so the reason why we're having this conversation is because you recently disclosed to me that after many years, I'm guessing, of trying to start a family with your wife, along that process, you guys experience loss to miscarriage. And so I've invited you to the platform. I'm grateful that you're here for you to share your story and for us to navigate whatever it is that you put on the table. So to begin with, I what were your aspirations about becoming a father? What were some of the goals and dreams that you you had going into this relationship with your spouse?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Well, I think that, you know, both my wife and I, you know, had just always assumed everything was going to be fine, you know, like we were going through the process. You know, we got married at uh age 26. We wanted to wait a couple of years before we wanted to start having children. So, you know, uh we kind of waited, waited a couple years. I work as a pastor. And so at the time we were living in Boone, North Carolina, which is up in the mountains of North Carolina. And, you know, we I remember that day very uh, you know, as that day we're like, all right, unprotected time, you know, and we're we're we're going for it. And, you know, I think it's natural when you start trying to have a kid that you're immediately looking to see if if you know if pregnant and and all those things. And, you know, we I don't think we were like thinking, oh, it's gonna happen the first time, you know, but I I think we were fully prepared for that. In fact, we had it in our heads that we're like, all right, before we're gonna wait a full year before we even start having the conversation of do we think something's wrong? And so in that time, I had actually transitioned to become pastor in Spartanburg, South Carolina. And that's when we hit the one year mark. I was just starting a new position at a larger church where I was the associate pastor there. We're getting ready, ready for a big youth event that this church would hold annually. And then I remember my wife and I, we had gone and kind of gotten ourselves tested or checked out, essentially. I mean, and I remember getting a phone call, and I'm literally super busy. I'm I'm actually I was in the middle of a staff meeting with my senior pastor where I had to step out and take a call. And this lady tells me, you know, news that I was not exactly preparing to hear. Wasn't even on my, you know, I know I had just gotten, you know, I know I I had just gotten myself checked out, but you know, again, I never really operated as if there was even the slightest possibility that there might be something, something wrong.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

And so I actually When you say checked out, would checked off for for what?

Infertility Diagnosis And Male Shame

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Well, you just, you know, sperm count, like, you know, your the you know, your your your your overall health and and other things, like just finding out if there is anything that is, you know, that I need to be doing better to be able to make sure and you know, my wife making sure she she's healthy and that there's nothing wrong on her end. And so I found out, you know, basically, you know, that it was very, very low count, okay, was was the deal. And so, you know, I I was so I I remember talking to her and and she was telling me, like, this lady's being super sweet, and she's like, uh, she's like, well, you know, I only know it only takes one, you know, sorry to be graphic here. It only takes one to to get the job done. And I'm like, I so this is when I kind of was like, she hadn't exactly used those words. She'd been kind of beaten around the bush with what she was telling me. And so I remember being like, hey, what are you trying to tell me right now? And and she essentially told me she said it's very unlikely in this state that you and your wife would be able to get to get pregnant. It's not impossible, but it would be very, very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

So now let me just back up for a little bit. So you and your wife had this agreement that you weren't going to start talking about whether or not there was anything wrong up until a year.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Up until a year, yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

You're at the year mark. Was were there points along that, even though you already had that agreement set, were there still points along that where for you privately in the back of your mind, those kind of thoughts began to creep in?

IVF Pressure And Feeling Helpless

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Nope. No, it wasn't even on my radar. I just kind of was like, ah, you know, it takes some time. The other thing about it is that, you know, my my my wife had actually has no no thyroid. And so I think we were preparing as if there might be some challenges from that perspective. Like that if there was any issues, it might be coming from that area. But this is not something that was like in in any sort of my family history or anything like that. So again, I just didn't really, and again, I wasn't necessarily like even worried in any in any respect. I, you know, I can only speak for myself. I'm I don't my my wife may have had different different emotions, but I do think that she was more preparing on her end. And I will say, like, when it comes to infertility, I think there is a natural, you know, whatever that it's the woman and it's not the man. Like that, that always, that always seems to be kind of what most people are thinking. And, you know, so I'm having kind of I was having this moment where like, wow, oh, I did I didn't recognize that, you know, this might be coming from my end, essentially. And so that was kind of interesting. And I will say, like, you know, even opening up to some family members about about it, you know, it was more like, oh, that's not right. Oh, that's that that was just a false test. They didn't, they don't know what they're talking about, you know, like they didn't, there wasn't really an acceptance there, even though we had been going through the we had been going through this process sort of a thing. Like, so there's a lot of people out you know, it was it was an interesting time. There was some stuff going on going on in, you know, in my family as a whole that was it was was you know occupying some of our some of our thoughts and everything. And but like this was a little bit kind of on the it kind of at it was even though even though we had gone for these tests and everything, it probably still wasn't number one on my mind, you know. So they actually talked to us about, well, here's some things you can do, you know, testosterone and some other other things to help help boost things. And you know, I I think I actually went and got retested twice while taking some prescriptions that they were recommending me here. Uh this is this was a fertility clinic that we were working with in in South Carolina that was that was kind of walking us through the process, but nothing was changing. So, anyways, it was long story short, in that area, they kept they said, Well, listen, we we do think you're a a prime candidate for for IVF. And let's let's go let's go that route. Because I will say what they did tell about my wife is that she was perfectly healthy and was in, they said she was, they said she was completely ready to be able to carry a child, all the like her womb, great, everything's good shape, you know. So they so we anyways, the thing about IVF too, like, is it's expensive, okay? And being able to find what you can insurance-wise and everything like that, those are all those are all things too, okay. And so we like I mentioned before, like we had something going on in our family that, you know, just to back up, we weren't really going public with this with my family or our family that this was going on for a while because we had some other stuff taking place right around this time. And so we're kind of doing this in the in in in the background. And I and I will tell you, like, you know, we'd had a few years of we, we, we'd had a few years of marriage now to this point. You know, my wife was so ready to be a mom. I mean, so ready to be a mom. She never put any like, never like, you know, showed any dis like anger or frustration towards me that because I'm, you know, physically the problem, that wasn't the case. But at the same time, you know, she was certainly battling this emotion because she's seeing all her friends getting pregnant. She's seeing, you know, peers and everybody else. And and I think, I think on some level, quite frankly, even though it was medically, you know, on my end, there's something there that's telling, telling her this is her fault in some way. So, so, anyways, we're pursuing this, this, this IVF option. And after we'd really kind of exhausted all the tests, this is close to a year later that we're now pursuing the the IVF option. Now we're having, we're saving money, we're going, going forward with that. And we had some really good news, you know. We after, unfortunately, this was hard because I'm the issue, yet my wife has to get all these horrible shots and you know, get all these hormone all these hor jacked up by all these hormones and everything like that. And I mean, uh, it's rough, you know, those those that look so painful. I can barely stand like a teeny needle. This thing, yeah, just torture.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Right? Making clear that there is this, it's almost like two camps were set. Your wife's camp, everything checked out, she was fine, everything was okay. Yet she's the one who's having to go through all of the things because her body is the one that's going to carry the baby. The issue is coming from your end, but you're not having to be pulped and prodded and any of that stuff. And so you're kind of a witness to the thing that I'm imagining. And I guess this is my question. What's going on in your mind in terms of your mental and emotional state, watching how incongruent this whole thing is? I'm the problem, yet she's the one literally physically suffering for my problem. What, what was that for you as a man, as a husband?

Are You Ready To Be A Daddy

SPEAKER_01 12:57

The word I would use is helpless, you know, because this was a moment where I were things, this is such a private issue that I can't really go to a whole, I can't really, who do I go to, you know, other than talk to God about it. You know, I can I this is this is something that I'm not really at a point where I can talk to, you know, members of my family as well about it, even though we eventually did tell our family what direction we were going and everything. But like this wasn't something that I was talking to a lot of close friends about. And, you know, as a pastor, you know, every single week I got something happening. I'm and we're, you know, I'm I'm managing what's taking place in my in my workspace and kind of basically like we're in this midst of kind of suffering and silence. Okay. So meaning like this was this was miserable. Um I mean, this was a this was a miserable feeling because I wanted, I mean, I'm that typical husband that wants to solve everything, fix everything, and fix it then and now, and there's not really anything I can do other than just simply be supportive. Listen, when it comes to this, like the guy's got the easy job, you know. They I mean, I will say, I will say it is an uncomfortable job when they, you know, put you in a room and that, you know, you do your part sort of a thing. Very, very awkward and all those things, but it's still nothing in comparison to what she's having to go through. Um and so yeah, it just helpless is certainly where I would describe where we were. But, you know, we went through we went through this this process, and amazingly, you know, they we were told that we had five five healthy embryos had been had had been created. And so we felt really good about that. That they told us that was they told us that this is really, really good. They asked us about genetic testing, and we were a little bit hesitant on genetic testing because it was first off, it was like an extra$2,000 to do it. And we had to think about that for a second. Now we got back to them and we said, hey, yes, we want to do the genetic testing. However, we got back to them on the last day that they had given us us within their window. That being said, we did tell them, yes. They came back to us and said, Oh, actually, the the window already closed. We're sorry, but listen, guys, you guys are both young, you're healthy, you know, it really don't see like this is gonna be any any sort of an issue. So I can't remember how many, how long it was, just a few weeks later, however long it was, they then, you know, they they then will see if the embryo will take inside and inside uh her. And so, you know, I I can tell you right now, I remember our family was getting together with uh sorry, Megan and I, uh we were getting together with my wife's family camping literally within the we were up in Pennsylvania, and so we were getting the we were gonna find out if it had taken, essentially, within this window when we're out here camping. Okay. And so the day happened and she had been resisting the urge to to check to see if she was pregnant, you know, for a couple of those days. You were waiting until that day that she could find out if she was pregnant. And I can tell you right now, she I remember her coming up to me and she goes, like we have a little pop-up camper, and she opens the door and she comes in, she nuzzles up next to me and she goes, Are you ready to be a daddy? You know, and we just had this amazing moment there. We were so happy. We kind of made it a point that we weren't gonna tell people tell even her family or or or people yet that because it's still early, you know, and we wanted to make sure we've been checked out. Listen, we were so excited, we couldn't help but start, you know, like telling one, okay, you can tell one person, I'll tell one person, you know, we'll, you know, we'll and then that number continued to expand. In fact, before we left uh Pennsylvania, we actually told her family. I remember her, she just wanted to be with her mom to be able to tell her, you know. And mind you, you know, her older sister had and that they'd had a baby, you know, recently, uh, that was like right at about a little over a year at that point, I think. Or it was new new at this point. Everything's new, you know. Maybe I actually have my details wrong. Regardless, uh regardless, this is actually now now that I'm now that I'm thinking about it, I think I think, I think, if I'm not mistaken, her sister was pregnant at this point too.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

What did those words do to you? What happened inside of you when she came and asked you, or yeah, when she snuggled up next to you and asked you, are you ready to be a daddy? What did that question ignite inside of you? What did it do to you?

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I mean, I didn't really take it as a question, to be honest with you. She was she's asking me that question, but she's what she's doing is she's telling me we're gonna have a we're we're gonna have a child. And so honestly, I had I was nothing but thrilled. Like I don't I don't want to say I was scared. I wasn't any of those things. I was just like, see, the Lord was with us, he's he's he he got us through that this point in our point in our journey, you know. And so yeah, I honestly I really was just nothing but thrilled.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Did you begin to feel a connection with your baby at that moment? Did you start to envision life with your baby? Did you project into the future at all around that time, knowing that she's pregnant and this thing is finally happening?

SPEAKER_01 18:47

But again, I think I was back to the point of where I was prior to us starting that just everything's gonna be okay. You know, we're gonna have this child, and then we've got these four other embryos. So at least one of those is gonna take for our second one. We're gonna have the two kids, you know, and uh I just felt really good about things. I I felt like we'd had an obstacle, and now that obstacle was behind us, and everything's gonna, everything's been gonna be just fine. So we we were working with this clinic to do a couple checkups with you. What's interesting is is you know, in IVF, you learn that you're pregnant a lot faster than most people do when they are naturally, you know, at this point, at this point, you know, you're learning at about like four to six weeks, where you know, some people learn a lot later than that, sort of a thing. And so we were at that stage only for several weeks. Uh for for several weeks, we are still, you know, all the things about it that comes with, you know, feeling of being pregnant and everything. And so we did a couple trips, we told both sides of the family now at this point. We we were feeling good, you know, at this clinic, every ultrasound and every everything they're looking at, they're telling us this this look everything looks great, this is wonderful. And so then what they do is they graduate you from the fertility clinic area and there's those specialists to now going to a normal, you know, a normal like hospital or or having having your own, you know, OB and all those things.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah.

No Heartbeat And Instant Grief

Two Different Grieving Styles

SPEAKER_01 20:23

So this I should have mentioned this is during this was during when sh when she was pregnant was this was during COVID time, okay? Like this was this was 2020. And so it was challenging to even get in through the IVF process because some of the clinics were shut down and some of them weren't. And so being able to be together in these office visits wasn't as easy. Like sometimes I was told when we were going to the next next place, they told me that I couldn't be there. So I was like, well, hey, listen, you're gonna be there. It makes sense because like I like I'm gonna I'm just gonna go to the gym while you're doing this, and you can, and you know, you'll you'll be you'll be there. I it's only like 10 minutes from each other, or it's actually on the same road, just a few miles down the road. I'll go to the gym while you're doing this. Not good decisions as a husband, obviously. I should have waited out in the I should have waited out in the in the the waiting room or in the car even while this was going on. But I remember getting this text from my wife. Actually, I had missed like three texts while while I was there. I'd missed some texts. And I I was talking to a friend of mine, and I looked down at these text messages and realizing, hey, they're seeing something. I'm really scared. I really wish you were here. I'm really, you know, like 911 sort of a thing. Basically, what they what they found was that the things did not look good. I don't know why we didn't see that at the other clinic. I don't know if they were quite trained to see certain things, but they were telling us like this isn't looking great. You could potentially have a high risk for if you have a baby, it could be autistic or have like the clef or something. And um so we're we went home that night, we were like just talking, but now we're envisioning, okay, like all right, you know, now our life's gonna be different here, okay. Now we're prepared now in one day we're preparing to have a baby, but maybe maybe this baby's gonna be different than what we had envisioned, that there's gonna be be some issues here. So we were then scheduled to my wife had to go from this place to now a high-risk pregnancy center. And so again, I couldn't be there. I I mean, I this time I had the sense that I was staying with her. I was gonna be, I I, even though they wouldn't let me in the hospital, I was out in the car waiting. And then my my wife calls me, she said, Hey, they're gonna let you, they're gonna let you come up. Come on up. So I come up, and when my wife had called me, she I give her all the credit in the world because she maintained this steady voice, but she told me, Hey, come up. I did I wasn't even alerted, I wasn't thinking anything was wrong. I was just waiting to hear what the what this doctor had said. And so they they let me pass through and I went and I opened the door, and my wife looks at me and she just bursts into tears. And and I immediately start bursting into tears, and she's I asked, is everything okay? And she said, No, no, the the there's no there's no heartbeat, you know. Uh the the baby's gone, you know. And I just remember we just had that moment in there. The reason I was being let up was so that I could come comfort my wife was the what was really what had taken place. And I remember just feeling as helpless as ever again. And just didn't know didn't know didn't know what to do, you know. And uh we listened when the doctor came in, you know, he was fairly just kind of straightforward. I don't wouldn't say he was cold, I think he was just more like had to be very factual in what he was saying. He was I remember, you know, making sure he was just very, very clear with what he's sharing with us, what they had seen and and what and what had taken place and and the and then he exited. And I I do remember having this thought that I was like, man, what a what a lousy place to work, what a lousy place to work, having to go to go around and share that news all day, you know. And uh like how often does that man or or woman in that profession get to go and share? So maybe sometimes giving good news and probably a lot of times giving the news like we had share that that they had to share with us or things, and I was like, damn, what a I remember having that thought that day, I was like, what a that is uh somebody's gotta be really built differently to be able to share that kind of news all day. And so, anyways, we went home and I remember, you know, we just didn't know what to do. I remember we sat down, we watched a watched a movie and I went into my my wife, she has a process when she's going through something. She's gotta be she's gonna be quiet, she's gonna she's internalizing what's going on, she's not doing a lot of talking and you know, she's gotta she's she'll break down eventually, but she likes to do that privately. And I'm kind of the opposite. I'm I wanna deal with it. I wanna I wanna how how can I help? What can I do for you? What can I you know? I'm I'm kind of over the top with trying to fix the situation and and and figure out what to do and and try and re-spark this, you know, what we're gonna do to to now and and fix the situation. So I talked to her, I said, hey, maybe and and the thing was is I I learned that I I was supposed to preach that Sabbath, basically. I was, I was, I was on to pre set. I called my senior pastor, I was like, listen, I can't do it. I'm sorry. It's not it's not in me. I did tell him what had happened and I just said I I can't do it. I've got to be there for my wife this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Was he one of the few people who knew what happened, sort of in the immediacy of it happening because of the circumstances?

DNC Decisions And Recovery Time

The First Person To Ask Him

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. And and you know, like I said, he he was he was great. He listened and didn't didn't, I mean, it he was ex he was ecstatic for us when we found out we were pregnant. He was also, he was very kind, you know, when we found out that it that it didn't happen. So the mistake I made was is I I was like, hey, Megan, let's let's let's go do something. Let's get out, let's get out of our house. Let's not just go sit around, let's go camping. You know, that was kind of the thing that we did we did a lot. I found us like this this, you know, this this camping place nearby and this campground that was, you know, seemed to have nice things, accommodations and everything. And so we went there again. Her heart wasn't in it. I booked like a two two-night stay at this place, and we left after we left after one night. We decided to come home. And that's when, you know, she kind of just shared with me. She's like, hey, listen, I I've gotta, I've gotta be able to be alone and just kind of process this stuff. I know like she she I don't think she was ever hard on me for just trying to, you know, help. She knew I was trying to help, but she needed to she needed to to grieve, you know. And so yeah, it was it we we had to we had to kind of go go through that. And I w I think and to some degree I backed off a little bit and let her process and let her grieve and trust that she was strong enough that she was going to, you know, work through work through what had had just taken place. There was a moment I failed to mention that was really difficult, and that is, you know, we still had to have a a DNC. There was the options of you know, could could would it would the baby pass naturally, you gotta wait for that or you know, or remove. And I think I'm I'm pretty sure we chose to have have the baby the procedure removed just because my wife was working as a public school teacher and didn't really want to have some of those things happen, you know, in the middle of the in the middle of the school day. But you know, we had to that's what did happen. And I'm pretty sure this was actually before we actually went out on that that camping trip that only lasted a day. I'm just saying all these things together combined, that's that's what that's what we were kind of kind of dealing with. And so, but you know, I give my wife all the credit in the world because her process is her process of if she needs to lay in bed for a couple days and and grieve and do those things, she does bounce back, you know, she's incredibly strong. But you know, this is also a moment where we've been knocked down and she needed that time. She absolutely needed that time. So but I want to come back to where I'm at as as in in my role, okay. Like what I what I'm doing in this situation, I'm I'm only thinking about her throughout this whole thing. I'm only thinking about how I can help her, what can I do to make her feel better, how can I all these things. And I'm I you know it's been a few years, so it's hard for me to remember in what proximity this next conversation happened. But I do remember that my wife's older sister came to came to be with us, and we uh we were out to eat for breakfast, probably a number of weeks later, maybe a month later or something like that. We're out to eat for breakfast, and my wife has to get up and use the restroom and my wife's sister named Satara, she asked me, she said, Now, how are you doing with all this? And I remember having this epiphany that she was the very first person who had asked me that question. In fact, I think I it was the first time I'd even asked myself that question. How am I, how am I doing through this? Because everything I was doing was attempting to be there for my wife and attempting to help her, even though most of what I'm doing is getting in the way of her being able to, you know, go through her process and her emotions. But I was not focusing on myself.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Not to say, not to say my wife never asked me, you know, like was checking up on me, but even if she had asked it's different when it's somebody else outside of you and your partner, in this case you and your wife.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

It's different when it's a it's a third party voice that and I think I think even with with with her, like I don't want to say that that my wife never asked me how I was doing or was checking on me. It's just that I never really took the time to even consider, consider how I was doing until I was asked, like you're saying, by a third party here and asking me how I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

And like I said, I didn't, I don't even know what I answered in that situation. I just remember thinking, how am I doing? Like I'm it was something I have something that I'm having to figure out and kind of kind of understand. I mean, obviously I cried, I balled my eyes out the day that we, you know, both day, you know, the day that we found out the news and also the day that, you know, we had the DNC and all those things, you know, I I definitely, definitely had my own tears. But everything for me, like I knew how much, I knew how much we wanted to have it have a family. I knew how much my my my wife deserved to have her child, that this was what she was, what she wanted. This was everything was focused there that, you know, I wasn't really doing much for myself in in in that respect either. And so it helped it helped me, it challenged me first off to start thinking about that and and and you know, make sure I'm make sure I'm coping okay my myself, make sure that I'm not, you know, silently resenting my wife or not caring, like, you know, with some made-up thought that she's not thinking about me, it helped me um not bury down my own emotions so that I could kind of cope with what was taking place too.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

This marks the end of this week's episode. If you or another dad you know are looking for assistance, navigating babylong, I'm offering a free 30-minute virtual meeting to explore support options. Visit the dad always website to request a private conversation. And also download the Dad Always Survive Guide to serve as a companion for navigating the first moment at baby. This podcast episode is dedicated to the ones we hoped for but never met. And the ones who time with us.